Zimbabwe again...interesting though

#2
The problem is that the UK does not have the resources to mount a unilateral regime-change op and the Spams are not interested in underwriting a joint venture. Both are overstretched militarily.

Zimbabwe is also landlocked, so you would need a springboard for invasion in South Africa or Mozambique. And the equivalent of an airmobile division. None of the neighbouring states would be likely to cooperate.

The aftermath would be the most difficult phase, even if it were possible. Guerrilla warfare would be inevitable. Post-Iraq, that's not an acceptable political outcome. Too many bodybags.
 
#3
Bet if there was "oil" there we wouldn't be hanging around? Seems sickening we will go and defend the rights of arabs who hate us anyway but not do anything to stop this situation from happening, worst case senario, 50,000 white people (of which there are a lot - expats) will be killed, tortured or displaced.

Rincewind
 
#4
The dilemma for Bliar and co is that "Black Bob" Mugabe was the toast of the town when he was a so-called freedom fighter. Now he's a tyrant, in the familiar mould of African dictators, but they can't admit it. Especially when their other imperial jaunts have emptied the toybox. Any unilateral action by the UK, even if possible, would destroy what's left of the Commonwealth. Tough on second and third-generation white Rhodesians - oops! Zimbabweans - who're losing all their families worked for and are arguably as African as any Shona or Ndebele.
 
#5
What about an army "adventure training weekend" that coinsidently coinsided with Black Bob accidently shooting himself 32 times whilst shaving?

Of course i am joking!

Guess we will just have to suck it and see?

Rincewind
 
#6
Rincewind said:
What about an army "adventure training weekend" that coinsidently coinsided with Black Bob accidently shooting himself 32 times whilst shaving?

Of course i am joking!

Guess we will just have to suck it and see?

Rincewind
No doubt someone has looked at the possibility. Bliar's probably hoping the old cnut will just die of natural causes. Not peacefully in his bed from gunshot wounds, though he richly deserves to be given the good news. :wink:
 
#8
I predict that Bliar will do nothing to help the "whites" and the opposition. As rightly stated, we are overstretched and BLiar and his cronies would have to admit supporting the wrong candidate during the civil war years.

So how long before South Africa ends up the same way? I would never envisage this happening in Zimbabwe but thats a Dictatorship for you!
 
#9
The Zims have about 40,000 men under arms, but they're a rabble. They'd be easy to knock over if we had the available manpower, transport and political will. Won't happen though. Not PC to topple a black dictator. Better run ashore than Iraq by by long chalk........ :D Climate's better AND they've got breweries. Locals would welcome us, too, unlike the rags.
 
#10
. Not peacefully in his bed from gunshot wounds, though he richly deserves to be given the good news
Or peacefully in his car in the middle of the night, a fate that seems to befall his opponents with depressing regularity.



50,000 white people (of which there are a lot - expats) will be killed, tortured or displaced.
Not forgetting the Black Zimbabwean British passport holders , and of course, millions of the IP who aren't in Mugabe's gang?

The reason we are having trouble justifying a quick break in, is statements like "protecting the Whites"

Fcuk protecting the Whites, if we go in, it's to protect everyone that needs our protection, before the whole mess slides downwards, Dharfur stylee.

We need to be making THAT point
 
#11
PartTimePongo said:
50,000 white people (of which there are a lot - expats) will be killed, tortured or displaced.
Not forgetting the Black Zimbabwean British passport holders , and of course, millions of the IP who aren't in Mugabe's gang?

The reason we are having trouble justifying a quick break in, is statements like "protecting the Whites"

Fcuk protecting the Whites, if we go in, it's to protect everyone that needs our protection, before the whole mess slides downwards, Dharfur stylee.

We need to be making THAT point.

Problem is, PTP, go in with what? Most of what we've got's sitting in the Sandpit, recovering from garrison duty, or preparing to go. The toybox is empty of soldiers. And the Spams wouldn't back us because of their own overstretch. Pity, but we have to face facts. :cry:
 
#12
Alas Claymore, you see the flaw in my argument.

We can't rely on the IP to support our break-in either , we simply don't know how terrifed they are of going into open revolt against Mugabe.

Maybe without our current committments in the litter tray, it might have been a possibility, but with the new cuts about to be announced, I guess we just have to wait for Mugabe to die of natural causes , but of course, only the good die young :evil:

A quick regime change? The post-op logistics would be a bloody nightmare, as well as not being able to guarantee co-operation from the ANC Government in ZA, which means if we can't keep them fed and busy, we get a descent into famine and shifta roaming the place, and our troops having to cover the whole country in penny packet amounts.

Why do the French never seem to have a problem going in to sort their old territories out?
 
#13
PartTimePongo said:
Alas Claymore, you see the flaw in my argument.

We can't rely on the IP to support our break-in either , we simply don't know how terrifed they are of going into open revolt against Mugabe.

Maybe without our current committments in the litter tray, it might have been a possibility, but with the new cuts about to be announced, I guess we just have to wait for Mugabe to die of natural causes , but of course, only the good die young :evil:

A quick regime change? The post-op logistics would be a bloody nightmare, as well as not being able to guarantee co-operation from the ANC Government in ZA, which means if we can't keep them fed and busy, we get a descent into famine and shifta roaming the place, and our troops having to cover the whole country in penny packet amounts.

Why do the French never seem to have a problem going in to sort their old territories out?
Because they send La Legion Etrangere. Paris is always willing to fight to the last drop of Legion blood. :lol:
 
#14
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100...u-turn-on-land-nationalisation-name_page.html
Robert Mugabe's government has backtracked on its plan to nationalise all farmland, saying it will now honour ownership rights to land bought on the property market, according to a state newspaper report.

Citing a letter by foreign ministry official Joe Bimha to Zimbabwe embassies abroad, the Sunday Mail reported that the government would be nationalising only the land it had seized under its land reform programme.

"The correct position is that all land acquired under the current phase of the land reform programme now reposes to the state," Bimha was quoted as saying.
Errrrrr what's he saying then?
 
#15
I think he's saying the land his thugs stole, ruined and now occupy will stay with them, while the land he's about to steal, ruin and occupy in a broken-down fashion will go to his governmental cronies to keep them onside. Cnut. Thieving cnut.
 
#16
Ahhhhhh thanks Claymore

I thought it was Shona for "It's all ours , and you stinking Matabele dogs and your White scum brothers can die of starvation for all we care"

Interesting article from the "Christian Post" here. Article is nearly 2 years old, so God knows what's happening now.


http://www.christianpost.com/archive/2002/11/2002-11-04_editorial-12.htm

In 1932, who believed Germans would systematically slaughter German Jews by the millions? In spring of 1994, how many of us in an allegedly savvier, Internet-informed world were ready to believe Rwandan Hutus intended to hack to death 800,000 Tutsis in an orgy of macabre machete violence?

Pay attention to Zimbabwe, a nation brutalized by the rapidly decaying regime of dictator Robert Mugabe. Zimbabwe may well be the next genocidal killing field, with the Matebele tribe the target of Mr. Mugabe's Shona.

In February, this column described Mr. Mugabe as the Slobodan Milosevic of Africa. Both the Shona and the Serb are thieves, "former Marxists" and ethnic cleansers who provoke ethnic strife, incite economic envy, murder opponents and do so under the propaganda cover of righting long-term historical wrongs. For beasts like Mr. Mugabe and Mr. Milosevic, "righting historical wrongs" means killing your ethnic enemies.
 
#17
Cheers, PTP. Glad to have been of assistance translating Zimcrap-speak. I've had practice doing the same with some of the effluent emanating from Whitehall. :lol:
 
#18
One possible solution would be to gather together all the guys from Zim and South Africa who are currently in H.M. Forces - most of them being in the Paras or such like - and drop them on Comrade Bob's place. His army is only fit for shooting civvies and keeping the old Marxist so-and-so himself in the power to which he has become accustomed. I seriously doubt if any British Government would intervene in Zim, and certainly not this one. Mugabe has a number of all-powerful weapons - Western post-colonial guilt, political correctness, and the monopolies on the words 'imperialism' and 'racism'. Could anyone envisage the outcry - and permit me to indulge in a complete fantasy here - if Britain chose to intervene in Zimbabwe? The anti-everything brigade would come down on Britain like a ton of bricks. The tragic thing is that this sort of intervention (not by the UN, God forbid!) is just what Zimbabwe needs, as there is more than enough talent, wealth and education around to salvage the place.
 
#19
Might be done by a well-organised merc operation. There's plenty of internal support for anyone intent on toppling Black Bob. And there are enough black vets from the former South African army who could give it the right touch of colour. Once Mugabe was gone, The UK could step in with minimal forces(there's nothing else anyway)to help stabilise. Perhaps a job for Nato?
 
#20
"wild Geese" style raids aside a real solution requires that South Africa et al find the stones to admit that the revolution has failed big time in Zimbabwe. But as the current crop of leaders have invested their whole adult life in said revolution admitting failure is currently too much for them to cope with.

And besides with Uncle Tony's current foreign policy of "do too much with too little" where on earth will we get the troops from ?
 
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