Zanu Liebour considering scanning every call text and-email

#1
HERE
Government spies could scan every call, text and email
Ministers are considering a £12 billion plan to monitor the e-mail, telephone and internet browsing records of every person in Britain.

By Nick Allen
Last Updated: 11:47PM BST 05 Oct 2008

The huge eavesdropping programme would involve the creation of a mammoth central computer database to store hundreds of billions of individual pieces of communications traffic.

Supporters say it would become one of the security services' most comprehensive tools in the fight against terrorism but critics described it as "sinister".

MI5 currently has to apply to the Home Secretary for warrants to intercept specific email and website traffic but, under the new plan, internet and mobile phone networks could be monitored live by GCHQ, the Government listening post.

The Home Office said no decision had been taken but security officials claim live monitoring is necessary to pick up terrorist plots.

It would allow them to capture records like chat room discussions on password-protected Islamic extremist websites.

The annual number of phone calls and other electronic communications in the UK is predicted to nearly double from 230 billion in 2006 to 450 billion by 2016.

Last year 57 billion text messages, or 1,800 a second, were sent. That rose from one billion in 1999.

The number of broadband internet connections rose from 330,000 in 2001 to 18 million last year. Three billion e-mails are sent every day, or 35,000 every second.

One of the spurs for a central database is a concern over how that electronic communications data is currently stored by hundreds of different internet service providers and private telephone companies.

Records may only be held for limited periods of time and are then lost which makes it impossible for police and the security services to establishing historical links, or so-called "friendship trees", between terrorists.

If all communications information was centrally stored then links could be made between terrorist cells and other sympathisers could be identified.

The telephone and internet companies are currently required to give records of calls or internet use to law enforcement agencies if a senior officer authorises that it is needed for an inquiry.

Last year there were more than half a million such requests.

The cost of monitoring everything, and keeping it on a central database, has been estimated at £12 billion and would dwarf the proposed cost of the identity cards programme.

Critics also claim it would be virtually impossible to keep such a vast system secure and free from abuse by law enforcement agencies.

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said: "It would mark a substantial shift in the powers of the state to obtain information on individuals.

"Given the Government's poor record on protecting data, and seeing how significant an increase in power this would be, we need to have a national debate and the Government would have to justify its need."

The Information Commissioner, Richard Thomas, has already called for a public debate about Government proposals for the state to retain people's internet and phone records.

A spokesman for the commissioner said: "He warned that it is likely that such a scheme would be a step too far for the British way of life. Proposals that threaten such intrusion into people's lives must be properly debated."

Richard Clayton, a security expert at Cambridge University, said the proposal would mean installing thousands of probes in telephone and computer networks which would re-route data to the central database.
No real surprise form our Zanu Liebour Marxistgovernment, unfortunately.
Pity they won't do at least one constructive thing while they are still in :(

edited to correct spelling in title of thread.
 
#3
Another Telegraph scare story? Surely not.

I think the Government have far better things to spend £12Bn on than this.

The sheer logistics involved are incredible. How are they going to break into and listen to VoIP encrypted end to end traffic in real time?

Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
 
#4
PartTimePongo said:
Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
They got 42 days through the HoC mate, if they can find the cash/favours/honours for the bribes would you really bet against it?
 
#5
£12 billion? I'd expect to see that rise! The sheer complexity of doing something like this, added to this Governments shoddy record on publically funded IT projects, should see those costs increase substantially.

PTP is right about the encrypted data point, that'll probably just give them an excuse to intrude further into your life.

The amount of data and bandwidth required is absolutely huge - expect to see a 40 foot wide fibre optic cable heading towards Cheltenham.
 
#6
I wouldn't worry about it. New Labour can't even get the email working on the NHS super computer. They're hardly likely to be able to produce the world's biggest database in the next 18 months.

There was a brief discussion of this proposal in the IT press a few months ago. A few small calculations quickly revealed that no computer hardware or database software exists that could process that volume of data in real time. Even mighty Oracle clusters would balk at thousands of text messages per second.

Clearly, whatever loon thought this up hasn't even reached the back of a fag packet stage in the design process.

Why don't they try to get the septics to allow us access to their echelon system?
 
#7
Strait_Jacket said:
PartTimePongo said:
Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
They got 42 days through the HoC mate, if they can find the cash/favours/honours for the bribes would you really bet against it?
Throught the HoC - yes, but it returns to the Lords in 9 days time.
 
#8
Ancient_Mariner said:
Clearly, whatever loon thought this up hasn't even reached the back of a fag packet stage in the design process.
Oh they have... they're no loons. I think you'll find the fag packet reads something like:

"We need money, government are suckers for expensive IT projects, lets sell them an elaborate IT system which can't possibly work"

How much more planning do you honestly need?
 
#9
Bonzo_Dog said:
Strait_Jacket said:
PartTimePongo said:
Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
They got 42 days through the HoC mate, if they can find the cash/favours/honours for the bribes would you really bet against it?
Throught the HoC - yes, but it returns to the Lords in 9 days time.
And is expected to fail and then be dropped all together.

I work in the industry and the logistical nightmare of this would be astronomical, never going to happen.
 
#10
Ord_Sgt said:
Bonzo_Dog said:
Strait_Jacket said:
PartTimePongo said:
Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
They got 42 days through the HoC mate, if they can find the cash/favours/honours for the bribes would you really bet against it?
Throught the HoC - yes, but it returns to the Lords in 9 days time.
And is expected to fail and then be dropped all together.

I work in the industry and the logistical nightmare of this would be astronomical, never going to happen.
OT but if you work in the industry can you answer me this: Why is the NHS records thing so hard to make work? Isn't it just a collection of 60m excel spreadsheets, all be it with a few frilly bits?
 
#12
PartTimePongo said:
Another Telegraph scare story? Surely not.

I think the Government have far better things to spend £12Bn on than this.

The sheer logistics involved are incredible. How are they going to break into and listen to VoIP encrypted end to end traffic in real time?
Can anyone see this getting through Parliament or the Lords in it's (Telegraph reported) current form?
Simple

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39269746,00.htm

Part 3 of RIPA gives the police powers to order the disclosure of encryption keys, or force suspects to decrypt encrypted data.

Anyone who refuses to hand over a key to the police would face up to two years' imprisonment. Under current anti-terrorism legislation, terrorist suspects now face up to five years for withholding keys.

The powers are contained within Part 3 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA).
Easy to listen to encrypted stuff when you have the keys.
 
#13
Agreed that currently it is almost impossible (for the UK). Vodafone and their like already run some of the fastest computers in the world at full stretch supporting their mobile phone networks.

To concentrate all phones and emails into a single source? The computer hasn't yet been built that could start to handle it, and 12 billion beer tokens wouldn't be enough. Doubtless they have already considered it and so will have a party member on each street equipped with a standard desktop PC through which all phone lines and internet cables will pass. For a small sum (about 25,000k per annum) the party member will be asked to monitor their neighbours' email traffic (and monitor what they watch on cable, etc). Bonuses will be paid for every person they catch using non-words and speaking against the Party or the EU.

Now where is my replen of tin foil?
 
#14
parapauk:
OT but if you work in the industry can you answer me this: Why is the NHS records thing so hard to make work? Isn't it just a collection of 60m excel spreadsheets, all be it with a few frilly bits?
Im a telecom guy too, but have experience of government projects. The NHS computer project is so expensive because of "mission creep". They set out to unify the regional systems, then the boundaries change a la government fiddling with the NHS systems, so funding then changes, then requirements change.

I wouldnt trust this or any government with this much sensitive data. It is one thing to record who I call and when I call someone, similar to email, but totally another to record every email, web search and telephone call mobile or fixed. There are data protection issues on an enormous scale, who would administer the system, who would be able to access the system, who would control access etc.

This government hardly has a glistening record in data protection

This is a marxist governments control freakery, everybody is a suspect in Nu Labours eyes, and they would rather control the entire population instead of weeding out the few who are threats to our society. We used to look on the efforts of the stasi before the iron curtain fell with wonderment, now we are prepared to accept this!
 
#15
No problem, all any scammers or criminals have to do is wait for the obligatory laptop, cd, or dvd to be left on a train, bus taxi etc.

It the usual way sensitive personal information is controlled these days
 
#16
Ancient_Mariner said:
Why don't they try to get the septics to allow us access to their echelon system?
I thought we already did have limited access to it? We give them the list of people and codewords we'd like to be watched out for and then they give us the results if they feel like it. Last I heard we and the Americans were using it to get around each others civil liberties provisions, they listen in on people over here and we listen on people over there and then swap the results to get around domestic wiretapping laws since technically it comes from a foreign source. Although since the Americans pretty much legalised tapping their own citizens a while back the deal may well have fallen through.
 
#17
The day this goes live (if it ever gets off the ground in the first place), everybody should send a text message, e-mail and phone a friend with the following text

"The Plan is to go to the Houses of Parliament on the seventh of July. I am meeting up with my friend Crazy Abdul and we are going to have a bomb. Allah be praised that we succeed".

That should crash the system in no time at all. We then continue to do this every day until the government shuts down the system. It would take very little effort and hopefully make the government realise that they should put their efforts into intelligence led targetting, instead of blanketing the entire population with suspicion.

Nue Arbiet - Huh- What are they Good For? Absolutely nothin'!, Say it again! (To the tune of Edwin Starr's War)

Ish.
 
#18
£12 Billion, isn't that nearly the same amount that they wasted on the NHS Computer system..?

People call you cynical, but our governments aim is to have complete control of every single citizen in this so called free country.

They may as well save the money and just 'Bar-Code' all new born kids and transplant a GPS into everyone's scalp so that they can track us, and TAX us, everywhere that we go.

If this go ahead either before a General Election or with no Parlimentry discussion, then it will just go to prove that the nu labour government has truly brianwashed the population into full state of Mongdom.

£12 Billion to 'Possibly' find a single email, text or phone call is akin to building a 5 mile runway next to every town in Britain, just in case a Space Shuttle needs to make an emergency landing.

How about they just earn their keep by applying some good old skills of detection. But I suppose even that's a hard task these day, as we're all classed as 'Guilty till Proved Innocent' anyway. And if you aren't initialy guilty, they'll just bang you up for 42 days until they can make up some very thin evidence.

Just like the Hadron Collider, it's amazing that they always sneek this controversial type of news out into the public domain when the worlds preoccupied with other things.


And I couldn't give a Monkeys Left Testicle what any of the ususal suspects think. That's my opinion and I've paid the Tax to be able to have it... :x
 
#19
For this:
It would allow them to capture records like chat room discussions on password-protected Islamic extremist websites.
Read this:

It would allow them to capture records like chat room discussions on password-protected un-PC websites such as ARRSE...
Lock up the servers in a steel cage! Make your passwords 32 digits long! Big Brother is snooping on ARRSE! :eek:
 
#20
Bravo_Zulu said:
Lock up the servers in a steel cage! Make your passwords 32 digits long! Big Brother is snooping on ARRSE! :eek:
Well a 32 digit password might take them about 3 seconds to break...

(for every user of Arrse).
 

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