Yours Aye

#1
I have noticed that it is quite popular in miliary circles to end letters, and some official corresspondence, with Yours Aye.

Whats that all about??
 
#3
The 'Aye' is a reference to the medieval word for eye, or brown eye in today’s context. Yours Aye simply means, in a crude form of closing a letter, 'up yer arrse'.

In the words of General Wahhly Henderson-Jones, 'Not many people know that.'

Hope this helps
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
Its the traditional Scots ending for letters. Below refers:

http://sinclair.quarterman.org/archive/2001/04/msg00028.html

"Yours aye" in Scotland literally "yours ever" or "yours always", and it is
quite a common closing to a note or letter, particularly amongst the
Military, where I started using it, around 20 years ago, instead of "yours
ever" or "yours sincerely". "Aye" is commonly used in Scots song and poetry
instead of the English "ever" or "always", e.g. "I'll aye be wi' ye..", (I
will always be with you...). It may have developed other meanings in the
USA, as our common language is constantly evolving language (although in
the elevator/lift joke, there is an reminder that while the Americans
invented the elevator, the Brits invented the language. So if you want the
Scots origin of "yours aye", this is it!
 
#5
You may also use it "the other way" ergo

Aye Yours = Ever Yours

but only for those you know well.
 
#6
'Yours Aye' (under old SD) = porridge wogs version of 'Yours ever'.

We were always taught to 'Yours ever' unless we were of the northern persuasion.

Yours pedantically,

SN
 
#7
Way way back, this was the handwritten closing to what was then known as a demi-official (DO) letter. Please do not ask me what a DO letter was. Some form of not quite formal communication ranging from gentle advice, through mild boloocking into congratulations for a job well done. The 'Dear Rupert' bit would also be handwritten.
 
#8
is this not covered in the old JSP 101?
 
#9
OldRedCap said:
Way way back, this was the handwritten closing to what was then known as a demi-official (DO) letter. Please do not ask me what a DO letter was. Some form of not quite formal communication ranging from gentle advice, through mild boloocking into congratulations for a job well done. The 'Dear Rupert' bit would also be handwritten.
The bureaucracy of Empire dies hard. I did a quick google for "demi-official letter", and the top results were from India, Canada, and the Royal Signals.
 
#10
A demi-official letter was one written in an official capacity, but on behalf of a specific individual rather than an appointment. Contrasted with a Routine Letter (written for an external audience from an appointment on behalf of ones superior commander) and a Loose Minute (written for an internal audience, from an appointment and on behalf of the appointment-holder). The "Formal Letter" was a purely personal affair for use only in personal and private correspondence.

JSP101, however, has entered the 21st Century and has done away with all of these, going by the rule that conveying the information clearly, concisely and correctly is more important than whether the borders and 1" or 1.5". And jolly good, too.

"Yours Aye" should only be used by Scots when signing off DO letters or personal correspondence. For a non-Scot to use it is unforgiveably presumptive unless the writer is American, in which case no further harm can possibly be done.

IF
 
#11
I do enjoy these cries for help!

Problem is these days that the lower orders are elevated above their station, so to speak, and so it is necessary to explain how to dress, how to eat, how to correspond, how to hunt, shoot, fish etc. so that they can survive as if on a ("new speak", I presume) "level playing field".

I usually address letters to people that I don't know that well as (for example): Dear Jackson. I would sign off such a letter as: Yours, Crusty. If I knew them a little better then it would be: My Dear Jackson and possibly signed as Yours ever, Crusty.

Yours aye is of course only suitable for those with an affiliation north of the border. It is pretentious for a chap from south of the border to use it and it is even more pretentious when some officers sign off as Aye alone.

Of course there is nothing to stop a chap doing it as drilled in at prep school: Dear Mummy and Daddy, and, Yours sincerely, Crusty xx. But perhaps without the kisses of course (though even that seems about to be compulsory!).

Crusty
Colonel
 
#12
I was on a course a few months ago and they were hoping to hand out copies of the new JSP101 on disc but it wasn't ready in time.

Does anybody know if the disc is available yet, if so is the PAM small enough to email and does anyone have a copy?
 
#13
eDW is on the interweb thingy, but only as an interactive tutorial, in Macromedia Flash.

It contains a 'library' section, which has downloadable PDFs of related documents.

http://www.da.mod.uk/eDW/eDW/edw_welcome_01.htm

JSP101, as a downloadable PDF, is linked at the foot of the initial welcome page.
 
#14
IdeasFactory said:
A demi-official letter was one written in an official capacity, but on behalf of a specific individual rather than an appointment. Contrasted with a Routine Letter (written for an external audience from an appointment on behalf of ones superior commander) and a Loose Minute (written for an internal audience, from an appointment and on behalf of the appointment-holder). The "Formal Letter" was a purely personal affair for use only in personal and private correspondence.

JSP101, however, has entered the 21st Century and has done away with all of these, going by the rule that conveying the information clearly, concisely and correctly is more important than whether the borders and 1" or 1.5". And jolly good, too.

"Yours Aye" should only be used by Scots when signing off DO letters or personal correspondence. For a non-Scot to use it is unforgiveably presumptive unless the writer is American, in which case no further harm can possibly be done.

IF
Sure, why follow tradition and any form of convention.
Perhaps they should now allow scented and flowery background paper as well. With luck any whimsical font may be used as well, after all this is the 21st century.
 
#15
Ideas factory wrote:

A demi-official letter was one written in an official capacity, but on behalf of a specific individual rather than an appointment.
Partly correct, as in to or from a specific individual, but also recommended for use to one's banker or tailor!

Contrasted with a Routine Letter (written for an external audience from an appointment on behalf of ones superior commander)
Routine letters could be signed on one's own behalf if one had the authority.

and a Loose Minute (written for an internal audience, from an appointment and on behalf of the appointment-holder).
Loose minutes were never to be signed "for" someone

The "Formal Letter" was a purely personal affair for use only in personal and private correspondence.
Bunkum, Sir. The formal letter was used for reporting to duty letters and in disciplinary matters: the example in the old JSP101 was a very funny one from an Officer whinging about being done for boozing yet having small mess bills.
 
#16
My word, JSP 101 is a boring document.

I'm confused though, why is it necessary at all? Surely those who actually "put pen to paper",
either physically or electronically, would have learnt all this at finishing school?
Learning how to walk with a book on ones head is all very well, but surely written etiquette is taught
as a matter of course?

Yours Aye
 
#18
Hang10 said:
I'm confused though, why is it necessary at all? Surely those who actually "put pen to paper",
either physically or electronically, would have learnt all this at finishing school?
Learning how to walk with a book on ones head is all very well, but surely written etiquette is taught
as a matter of course?
Now, your TA background is showing.... :)

We had a regular CO who would defend such features of JSP101 as the use of appropriately-coloured pens (his example was a blue pen left deliberately by the Sandhurst signing-out book as a "gotcha"). Black was the only colour allowed until you were of suitably exalted rank. By the time he tried to suggest that green ink was reserved for the use of General Officers, so that Staff could recognise their letters on sight, we were having to hold our sides at the lunacy of it all.

Obviously JSP101 is a process document like any number of ISO9000 documents; as such, its writing was obviously a tedious task which diverted someone from "Main Effort" - presumably fighting a war, or training armoured divisions to counter-stroke their way across the North German Plain. With ISO9000 documents, you typically find that the job of writing it was given to someone who actually had some free time. In other words, not the "1st XV". You know, "Damn, we've got to churn out instructions on letter-writing, give it to Maj So-andSo, he's not busy right now" .

Obviously, it was written by the kind of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder sufferer that produces SOPs which detail exactly the pocket to be used for the carriage of your spare bootlaces in the field. The author probably volunteered for it, and got the job because they scared everyone with their intensity, or perhaps it was seen as Occupational Therapy for officers on a knife-and-fork course in Woolwich as an alternative to basketweaving.

A scary thought is that there are probably hordes of OCD-suffering SD Nazis who think simplifying it and building it into MS Word is the kind of thing that will destroy standards in the British Army...
 
#19
Gravelbelly said:
Now, your TA background is showing.... :)
As I recall, the only AGC badged soldier I knew would have needed to balance several large encyclopedias on their head, merely to allow anyone to rest their coffee on them at a comfortable height.

I know, I know, going to hell....
 
#20
Gravelbelly said:
Hang10 said:
I'm confused though, why is it necessary at all? Surely those who actually "put pen to paper",
either physically or electronically, would have learnt all this at finishing school?
Learning how to walk with a book on ones head is all very well, but surely written etiquette is taught
as a matter of course?
Now, your TA background is showing.... :)

We had a regular CO who would defend such features of JSP101 as the use of appropriately-coloured pens (his example was a blue pen left deliberately by the Sandhurst signing-out book as a "gotcha"). Black was the only colour allowed until you were of suitably exalted rank. By the time he tried to suggest that green ink was reserved for the use of General Officers, so that Staff could recognise their letters on sight, we were having to hold our sides at the lunacy of it all.

Obviously JSP101 is a process document like any number of ISO9000 documents; as such, its writing was obviously a tedious task which diverted someone from "Main Effort" - presumably fighting a war, or training armoured divisions to counter-stroke their way across the North German Plain. With ISO9000 documents, you typically find that the job of writing it was given to someone who actually had some free time. In other words, not the "1st XV". You know, "Damn, we've got to churn out instructions on letter-writing, give it to Maj So-andSo, he's not busy right now" .

Obviously, it was written by the kind of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder sufferer that produces SOPs which detail exactly the pocket to be used for the carriage of your spare bootlaces in the field. The author probably volunteered for it, and got the job because they scared everyone with their intensity, or perhaps it was seen as Occupational Therapy for officers on a knife-and-fork course in Woolwich as an alternative to basketweaving.

A scary thought is that there are probably hordes of OCD-suffering SD Nazis who think simplifying it and building it into MS Word is the kind of thing that will destroy standards in the British Army...
Very true. Too often the decision making for forms and style is left up to admin types.

There is nothing wrong with boiler plate formats! But why MS word? (Lotus Word Pro is better)
 

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