Guys, your anger is entirely understandable - and also predictable. GB has taken refugees for many years, Ahmed is a case the NOTW has deliberately put alongside two homeless ex-soldiers to provoke exactly the reaction you have delivered. You have been manipulated, like everyone else who bought the paper in response to that headline, and the NOTW Editor will no doubt be very pleased with his circulation figures for that day.
The cases of Pat and Bob are appalling but sadly, unusual. Please go to the thread on "Why the Army Ben Fund needs your cash" to read more about ex-servicemen (and woman presumably) who are living on the streets. Why have Pat and Bob chosen to be homeless in LONDON of all places? There are areas in the country that have 0% unemployment - in fact, can't find people to fill jobs, where they could get themselves back on their feet. So why are they choosing to stay where they are? Probably because they want to - think on that....
Don't care. I have got to the stage now where I am sick to death of reading about and seeing the misery that these bast*rds bring with them.
And please, no bleeding hearts liberals telling me about the misery that they have left because I just do not give a t*ss anymore. My attitude has changed over the last few years (since I left the Army actually and can now witness first hand on civvie street the way that they are dragging our society down) from tolerance to "fcuk em all off".
Things like the story above are just the proverbial straw
Prodigal, I understand that a lot of Street people stay on the streets through choice, but do you seriously think that guy would turn a night down in a 5star hotel if offered.
Its going to be difficult for me to air my real views without being seen as a racist, this simpy isn't the case. However when we blatantly become abused and taken advantage of by the so called refugees, immigrants and freeloaders my blood begins to boil.
I don't blame the immigrants for taking advantage, thats the fault of the government for offering it on a plate. One of the two main stores in the papers last week was.
1. Raise the working age to 70 as the pension funds are skint
2. Assylum seekers etc to be given fortunes in handouts and freebies.
I contributed to the the nation last year by employing a number of people and giving around £18k to the tax man. The tax man then went and blew this on hotels for workshy wogs..................... I want a refund, I can better spend it, I would sooner donate it to the British legion or the Army benevolant fund. In all honesty I would sooner give it to the local cattery than to todays government
Its going to be difficult for me to air my real views without being seen as a racist, this simply isn't the case. However when we blatantly become abused and taken advantage of by the so called refugees, immigrants and freeloaders my blood begins to boil.
Unusually, my Mancunian nemesis has made a valid point.
The biggest problem that we face today is the culture of inverse racism, where saying anything to the populous that even remotely sounds like it is "having a go" at anyone that is not an English born white man is immediately branded as xenophobic.
A perfect example was the Birmingham coroner, who was raked over the coals when he dared to say that the black community should "pay back" some of the tolerance and internationalisms shown by the indigenous community by opening ranks and shopping the criminals who machine gunned the two girls on New Years Day.
Immediately the press jumped all over this, branding him as thoughtless and racist
Birmingham city council is a classic example of the "loony left", where, in order to appease the none white MINORITY, ideas such as banning council funded Christmas decorations, removing Christian icons from schools etc, etc have been banded around.
The (white) community that the coroner spoke about has suffered in order to accommodate ethnic minorities, so why shouldn't he be able to stand up and say that it was about time that they repaid that hospitality?
The same people bitching about his comments are the same people that stood passively by watching the local mosque hold a celebration party after September 11th, have allowed schools in the area to have English as a SECOND language and have allowed the area to become saturated with asylum seekers and II's.
And all the time they are happy to see people who have had the decency to actually serve this fcuked up country sleep on the streets. I wonder how much money would be available to help them if we stopped being the rubbish bin of europe?
I'd like to say "rant off" but this one has really, REALLY got me going
ORG, MDN and others, if you separate out the issues of asylum seekers and homeless ex-servicemen (I have just deleted 'ex-sevicepeople' because I feel, although I may be wrong, that most of them are men and not women), which issue do you feel angriest about?
I truly believer you are in charge of your own destiny although it is very easy to take a bum steer or take some bad advice when you leave the safety net of the forces.
I joined straight into Junior Leaders fropm Civvy St. I PVRed after 9 yrs after the forces changed and persued a job in the South Of France, I was sold the sizzle and not the sausage, knowing no better i took off without any resettlement or any advice on how Civvy St works.
Within eighteen months i was in debt and about to lose the house etc, when SSAFA and the legion jumped in and sorted me out. For that I will remain eternally grateful and without that stepup I would not have got to this stage in my career now.
This drifted off thread slightly I am trying to demonstrate how easy young bloke swith no taster for civvy st can end up on the streets. Squaddies have a stubborn and often unbreakable sense of pride and the inability to let people, family and friends know that they are struggling and failing, I know from first hand experience, I was at one stage going to shoot my dog sooner than let my dad know i didn't have 50p for a can of food.
Most of the forces homelessness can be avouded by better resettlement, not only in career advice and training but in showing how to settle in an environment totally different to what you are used to.
As for asylum seekers, close the ports and DO NOT LET ANY OTHERS IN. no more can be funded, we are already skint as a nation and we've given enough out in freebies, when do we get something back. If the ones that are here aren't contributing and paying income tax and national insurance within three months of being here benefits should be stopped and a long swim should follow.
My father luckily has just retired, he spent his last few yrs at work frightened to death that he would have to work until he dropped dead. I dont think a man who has only had ten days off sick in a generation of work should be burdoned with worries like that, his taxes have gone in the pot month in month out for 45 yrs, This is a man that should recieve the full back up of the government (not that he hasn't made provisions) a man who has put in surely now he can take out. Instead we give it away to a bunch of drifters who want an easy ride
Prod, the two issues go hand in hand. It is not the ex service men (although that gets my goat more than "normal" homeless people) being on the streets or immigrants flooding in, but the effect of the one on the other which p1sses me off.
We spend far too much money and time worrying about how Ali Achmed has been suffering in his own country (usually something as pathetic as not having a Waitrose within half a mile) and nowhere near enough time and money worrying about what is happening on our own doorstep.
The two are intrinsically linked because, if we didn't spend vast amounts of cash on asylum seekers and II's, it could be spent closer to home.
I can not, for the life of me, figure out why we are such a soft touch to these scrounging gits. The law on this is dead simple (but unenforced). Asylum seekers are supposed to seek Asylum in the FIRST country that they enter, NOT the third or fourth, yet they continue to come here via Germany, France, Holland etc.
Because we are stupid, that's why.
Why don't we just deport them the second that they are caught. Why are II's allowed to appeal against deportation?
Why don't we build "holding" camps to house these people whilst their applications are being processed, and by holding camps, I mean ones that they can't walk out of to p1ss off to London to make ricin.
Stop spending the money on people who have never paid a penny into, or done anything for, our country and start concentrating on the poor b*stards out there that actually have.
OK, MDN and ORG, I do understand your points of view, I genuinely do. I am liberal in my views, no doubt about that (although with a touch of the Genghis Kahn - I like to think of myself as a benevolent dictator...... ), and I would like to see asylum offered to people who have suffered real persecution. However, I would like to see other European countries soldier (no pun intended...) more of the responsibility.
I am also p*****d off with the crime that some illegal immigrants are introducing into GB - NOTE, I am making a differentiation between asylum seekers and illegal immigrants here. As a great deal of the crime includes the sexual exploitation of women and children, believe me, I'd see them hang.
However, the issue of homeless ex-servicemen (IMHO) needs to be addressed separately to the issue of illegal immigrants. MDN is absolutely right about how frighteningly easy it is to find yourself in deep doodoo - and he's an intelligent, active, gutsy individual (apart from his terrible affliction of not liking red heads.. ).
I'm glad you raised resettlment. The military employ, very very effectively, all the basic principles of social conditioning to turn civvies into soldiers - quite right too. However, the reversal process is more difficult to achieve than the turning process. When you 'turn' into a soldier, (assuming you don't change your mind during the process) you are moving towards a more positive psychological state. Much of the changing process is based on pride, belonging, and is very powerful (anyone who is familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs will understand what I mean).
The reverse process is moving from the positive to the negative, both emotionally and mentally. And what prepares you for this painful and disturbing transition? A course in furniture restoration perhaps??!!!
I believe, that there should be included in the Resettlement process, some kind of counselling to prepare people for the change in their psychological state, so they retain their pride, their belief in themselves. And also, to the great changes that are going to take place at home, within the family.
Totally agree with you MDN. I don't know what resettlement is like now, having left in '99, but I met many men and women who were doing various resettlement courses and failing them. Example HGV. They had no come back and no further resettlement or advise. So I wonder just what they do for a career now?
I know we don't need our 'hands held' when we leave, but I think you become 'institutionalised' in the Forces. Not spoiled, but the majority of the things that I find a pain in civvie street, are free and reachable in the Army. Once that is taken away from you, it's a steep learning curve getting used to civvie life. I left thinking I'd be in employment with a few months. I'd already failed my resettlement course, and that was down to picking a hard IT course with no previous experience. I spent 11 months on the dole. I came so close to ending up loosing my flat and my marbles. I'm still paying back some of the debts I got into. So I can see why some service men and women find it hard. And the report in the News of the World, if correct, just shows just how f**ked up this country is. And yes, some of the ex-forces homeless don't want help, because that's the life they want to lead, but some DO need help. So a toss up between 3 star hotel and the streets of London...... no contest.
Ok, so why don't we go and batter the Lottery, to open an "Ex-Soldiers residential establishment"
Not a hostel , or a drop in centre, or a doss-house. Something along the ines of one of the new singlys blocks. Somewhere where they can get themselves organised, with an address that has no hostel connotations, where they are free to stay as long as they want. Somewhere where they will receive advice and help, somewhere where they feel they belong. Soewhere where team spirit still prevails, where they look out for each other. no crackheads, druggies etc, just decent people trying to get on.
I fwe can host half of the third world and eastern Europe surely its not too much to ask for a building were exservicemen who have genuinley given to thier nation, either in the bar or on the battlefield.
The homeless figures speak for themselves, Its a charity I would donate to without hesitation.
I was reading a story last night about a Military medal holder who died whilst living on the cold streets of Sunderland, when they recovered the body all he had to his name was his set of immaculate medals. WHY THE FU@K IS THIS HAPPENING.
PTP, you've got no feeking chance of that, as proven before. The national dislottery wouldn't agree that ex-service men and woman need such a thing. Shame on you for suggesting it. The lottery money goes to other deserving causes, which I won't state, as they don't cater for British causes. Rule Britannia ? What a country we live in ! I'm ashamed of the way our ex and serving men and women are treated.