Your Bounty

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by The_Cheat, Mar 19, 2006.

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  1. First of all excuse me in advance if this comes out as a bit of a rambling mess...I'm still thinking about it at the moment.

    My main point is about the Bounty. I think its a good idea etc and I'm glad to be getting about £800 but is it really a good tool for retention? My recruiting experience is no where near as expansive as some of you on here, and I'm hoping for your in-put, but I just find it hard to think tht the idea of £400 is actually that apealing.

    In your first training you have to do more MTD's than you would normal. Most people in their first year will do their phase 1/ Tafs etc and will have done 14-ish days. I believe that the number of days thay they need for their bounty is 31 (could be wrong) but my point is, can you expect some1 to put in an extra 16 or so days? 8 weekends or 64 drill nights... how ever you break it down it's still a lot of time, and most of this time they will be earning the bare minimum. It still takes the admin staf a while to get you pay sorted out after courses etc, and especialy with a new recruit who doesn't really know about the pay system, or is to shy to point out their error etc, then you can do the entire year untill you realise. (btw, not a dig at the admin ppl, its just it happened to me and a few others!)

    So after doing 2 weeks, and 2 or 3 TAFS weekends, and then another 4 Weekends (ie your entire CMSR), and after doing extra weekends and nearly every drill night, then you get your bounty. You get £400. I just feel that it's a lot of effort to put in, for only £400, and there are plenty of cases where new recruits don't make their bounty.

    Don't get me wrong, a bounty is gr8, but at £400 I think it's less than a weeks army pay at the lower pay bands. After 3 or 4 years when your bounty is a lot larger then you can really start seeing the benifit, but I cant help but think that the Bounty is too low or the requirements to steep....

    I feel the bounty is a great idea ( I love getting mine!) but I feel that it's not being utilised correctly.
    Anyone have any opinions (or need me to explain anything!?)

    Just thought about this- If you do your CSMR (ie the 2week jobby) OR your training Gap you are excused your ITD's?MATTS etc because they would have been covered. This also means that new recruits who want to make up the days for their bounty can end up doing all of their ITD's 3 or so times! I know ITD's are important, but its a bit of a waste of training time I think.


    T C
     
  2. i will have to do a further 19(?) days when i come back from Telic 8 to qualify for my bounty. so after being mobilised for 9 months i will have to immediately start getting my days in when all i want is a break for a while. as i qualify for the full bounty it is a substantial amount of money that i cannot afford to lose.

    when i came back from Telic 2 it really pist a lot of guys off to the extent they sacked it and handed their kit in.

    so basically what i am saying is there are worse cases than what you describe. you dont have to turn out if you think its not worth your while. in my case i will turn out as it is most definitely is worth my while. it is a bounty after all. your choice mate when it comes down to it
     
  3. msr

    msr LE

    Fusilier,

    You should have to do no more than 4 days. PM me for more info - I can get you the file reference.

    msr
     
  4. Cheat, are you not forgetting the pay they recieve as well? 10 days on TAFS (4 * 2.5 days) is worth £299.99, and again for GAP, plus two weeks worth around £419 so just over a grand, plus bounty is quite a tidy sum. Sure it could be better, but it can't be sneezed at (unless you calculate out hours worked * nat min wage and you'll probably cry).

    I agree with having to repeat ITD's/MATTS or whatever, there should be no need, most of them have been done two or three times by the time the soldier has done trg GAP. In my first year I noticeed they hadn't got all mine ticked off, so lodged myself in the pay sgts in-tray on a drill night, pointed to various course reports, goals achieved and training programs from the weekends etc and they got it sorted out. Mate of mine in same regt, different squadron didn't get his as he didn't take my course of action and has missed out on around £800 worth of bounty (only now receiving the first years worth in his second year) - he's leaving anyway. Some seniors even say that soldiers in first year don't qualify, they bloomin well do! Got the ITD's, qualified as a soldier, got the days (deffinately by end of GAP) then you should get your reddies. I did.

    One thing for all soldiers, especially when on courses, if you do any ITD's/MATTs then get a photocopy of the paperwork from assessor and take back to sqn to get ticked off, don't trust the system on that one.

    The reward of CMS(R) and the rest of your basic, along with a few beer tokens, is the personal pride in completing that which most civilians will not even attempt. You've earned a place in HM's Army and can wear the uniform with the knowledge you've got what it takes. Continue to put in the same ammount of effort and you will be further rewarded with qualifications and unique experiences, fire piquets, death stag and as many 24hr rat packs you can shake a stick at. Saying that it actually costs some people to do the basic etc and so are effectively buying their place in the army(works for the govt) and working hard... The bounty next year will be worth more, the one after that even more - helps encourage you to stay sharp if your enphusiasm/morale is lacking.
     
  5. I guess I'm trying to say that as a recruiting tool then I don't think that it's used in the best way. Taking to weeks off work to get paid with the TA is great, but how many people have to take part of their holiday to do it? Or take it as unpaid leave? Even getting paid for the weekends could mean that they actually loose money, not to mention the fact that they'r not working for those 2 weeks. This is a fact that all members of the TA have to deal with, but thinking about it made me think that having the first year's number of days as higher than the rest was a bit steep.

    I see your point about making up for it the next year, but I feel that it may be to late by that point...

    T C
     
  6. Yeah I've got you now, people may well lose money by taking unpaid leave etc. Unforunately army rates of pay are never going to be able to meet civi ones, maybe an improved first year bounty to reflect this might help, but I think the current system works - they'll just need a longer term vision. Instead we should put more focus on organising and promoting the other experiences and sense of exclusivity that they'll be trading their days and potentially cash for.

    One thing that deffinately pisses troops off is taking a week off to help with a course, losing some £170 by the end of it and getting a 5min bollocking for failing a job they've not been trained to do by a WO2, and 3 second cheers from the lt col running the show, let alone extra pennies/bounty. It's in the job description, somewhere - just crack on with it.
     
  7. The rising level of bounty is a good aid for retention. There's an ever-increasing (for a while anyway) target to aim for, and all the while it looks easier to achieve.

    Worry when you get to the top level of bounty and the only targets are promotion. Stagnation can then set in, waiting for positions to come available, though by this time you'll have settled into a habit.
     
  8. Actually, the current bounty system is a great improvement on the old (for those who remember)

    The original bounty was in two parts. In the 70's it was £150. Of this £75 was tax free as your call up liability and £75 taxable for attending your training, Camp etc.

    This was amended in the 80's to a tax free lump sum and was then graded into 3 levels, so you reached your maximum bounty after 3year's service.

    The bounty also did not rise with inflation. The present variant came in the late 90's and the maximum level is now reached after 5 years.

    The bounty has also been increased with inflation I believe the last 3 times.

    In fairness it is not purely designed for retention, but as a recognition of training and service. Bearing in mind the Police Specials only get travelling expenses, a boot allowance and DRSA I think the TA and other Reserve forces don't do too bad on the pay front, bespecially as no-one forces you to join.

    I think a lot more could be done for those who get mobilised though, and the admin in a lot of units leaves much to be desired. I am near my sell by date now and have seen a lot of changes both in the Regulars and TA over the years, and it seems at the end of the day that money is the driving factor.

    They give it with one hand then think of a way to get it back with another! The NI daily allowance used to be 50p a day tax free - they increased it to £1 then made it taxable - situation normal!
     
  9. Just my 2 pence but from my experience the first couple of years had a sort of honeymoon appeal as everything was still new and shiny so the bounty was'nt really thought of much just as a nice little bit extra. Down the line I have to admit it has become an aimpoint in my down moments - ie. Get bounty - do camp - think well have done the largest chunk required not got much more to do - get ITDs done bit by bit (usually because of Admin unable to do them all together!!) then think well Iv only got a few months till April might aswell stick it out shame to turn down £1500.
    Of course I always pick myself up again from the normal training as I go along and then think why did I ever think of leaving, but you see what I mean, the bounty definatly becomes a key retention point if only for a little bit.
     
  10. I always have my itd's squared away well before christmas, no point leaving it until march, you know what admins are like ! . Bounty is not what keeps me in , don't tell the wife but I'd do this TA lark for free if I had to
     
  11. You claim a bounty? Tightarse!
     
  12. Same here on both accounts ;) Usually end up qualifying 2 times over at least but its always the "well I need to go on this weekend so I can get my Health ITD ticked off otherwise I wont get my bounty.." On that note, do we really need to be taught how to wash and shave every year? Some of us are responsible grown ups.. Now excuse me I need to go off and tend to the culture growing on my arrse crack, Im not a victim of the great toilet roll conspircy!!
     
  13. Speaking as someone who has been in the TA for almost 20 years, the bounty is the only reason I'm still in. We deserve something for putting up with poor training and even poorer administration. I'm sure if the army got a grip of it's admin, it would have less of a retention problem. If it just got the basics right, such as making sure that the pay arrives on time, and doesn't have to be chased up, and chased up, and chased up, it would be a start. If a civilian employer treated us like this, we'd want to take them to Court. And as for training, shouldn't this involve progressing and learning something new once in a while? Please?!

    Nuff said.
     
  14. same here mate. i try to get away as much as possible and get all the boxes ticked early. still doesnt mean the Special Pen Service wont cock up like last year. two weeks before bounty was due they told me i hadnt completed a pft for the year. it was politely pointed out that over the previous 6 months i had done 4 as well as 2 cft's with dates and times to prove it. my training record was quickly amended by him before his head was. :lol:

    i didnt mind doing the extra days in the first year because doing all the matts more than once would get it in your head and the bounty although small was welcome and spent quickly on myself and not the other half. the only gripe i have with my admin staff is that they dont support any willing volunteers for ops and seem to not want to sort the paperwork for you but that is a different post.
     
  15. forgot to add on a good point our unit did arrange a few weekends with MATT training but added other more interesting training into it. i must admit it was good to get back to good old infantry skills and to watch the younger ones do their first section attacks. the platoon attack on otterburn was extremely good fun after we had completed it.

    we also done a lot on mine awareness which was extremely interesting and i stayed awake through those lessons