Young shooters - BBC off on another one...

#1
Did anyone pick up on the story that went out this morning on the Today programme..

Not content with:

1. Libya
2. Japan
3. The Budget

The BBC thought it was worth dragging up a piece by Danny Shaw that "Thirteen children under the age of 10 have been issued with shotgun certificates in the UK over the past three years."

BBC News - Children under 10 issued shotguns, BBC learns

Well, slap me in the face with a Kipper!

Despite the fact that children under 15 have to be directly supervised by a competant and licenced adult, and all such applications will have been vetted by senior police at the highest level...

1. Where is the slightest shred of evidence that this is a problem.

2. Why, if this action has been carried out with the approval of senior Police does ACPO have a problem with it (.. and see 1.)

Is it only me that sees this as an appalling piece of sh1t stirring, lazy and incompetent reporting..?

I do hope BASC et al will sue (..but I doubt it)
 
#2
I'm afraid the outrage shooting brake just left with the beaters on board...but if you run you might catch them up at the first stand?


edited to add: Those of us who shoot and have well-disciplined and adequately supervised children have no issue with this. However if you were a vegan, libral, news room intern living in a flat in one of London's gun-crime blackspots, who donates to RSPCA and buys the IFAW address stickers...well then I guess your perspective would be different??
 
#3
I found the readers replies interesting, in particular this one:
In terms of both shotguns and firearms, young people should only be issued with PROVISIONAL licences - allowing training, etc., under supervision - until they reach the age of, say, 17, and possession of the weapon should always apply to the adult supervisor, who will be ultimately responsible for use. (A bit like motor vehicle driver licensing.)

Somebody missed the boat.


What's that saying again, if it aint broke---
 
#5
They should actively encourage young people to take up shooting, and promote responsible gun ownership at an early age. What they shouldn't do is allow nouveau-rich 40-50 year olds to take it up. I would suggest that these know it all ******* are the biggest risk to other shooters, protected species and themselves than any supervised kid could ever be.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#6
They should actively encourage young people to take up shooting, and promote responsible gun ownership at an early age. What they shouldn't do is allow nouveau-rich 40-50 year olds to take it up. I would suggest that these know it all ******* are the biggest risk to other shooters, protected species and themselves than any supervised kid could ever be.
You could not be more wrong.

Shooting in UK gets a pounding because it is seen as a niche sport, a few strange country folks and some posh gits wearing tweed, and some odd balls who hang around ranges in remote areas.
Germany has this bit right, participation and acceptability from all tiers of society, including plenty of rich 40-50 year old lawyers that you would wish to alienate from your club......
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#7
Well I finally bit the bullet and registered if only to register my disgust with the BBC and its standard of reporting. Whether or not I get written off as a nutter (likely) remains to be seen.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#8
I made a formal complaint about this via the BBC website. Parliament and the police take the view that properly supervised young children may safely use shotguns. In the context of the Derek Bird inquests and the associated review of firearms legislation, this was clearly an attempt to influence public opinion, not 'news' in the normal sense.

Complain to the BBC here
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#10
I made a formal complaint about this via the BBC website. Parliament and the police take the view that properly supervised young children may safely use shotguns. In the context of the Derek Bird inquests and the associated review of firearms legislation, this was clearly an attempt to influence public opinion, not 'news' in the normal sense.

Complain to the BBC here
Have done so.
 
#11
Seems like a perfectly decent piece of reporting to me and, as a pro shooting but non gun owner, can't see what you find to complain about.

It is relevant, because gun laws are under review, and it is in the public interest because we are all potential victims if the gun laws go wrong.

Granting a shotgun licence to a child who us under the age of criminal responsibility is also worthy of discussion and is news in that I bet virtually nobody except those involved knew this was possible.

Most of the piece goes to support responsible gun ownership, and highlights the point that young guns have to be supervised so what is the problem?
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#12
Its not reporting news though is it? Its not a big issue at the moment so why does some BBC news exec decide to make it one?
 
#13
Seems like a perfectly decent piece of reporting to me and, as a pro shooting but non gun owner, can't see what you find to complain about.
My problem was with their headline which was only there to grab attention, it was incorrect and covering a subject which has been covered before and is not news. The tone of the artical puts the issue of SG Certificates to children under 10 as wrong, yet I'm not aware of any reported crimes/accidents from this age group? They're fully supervised at all times (required by law) and exposure to firearms can only build respect in the long term.
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#14
Seems like a perfectly decent piece of reporting to me and, as a pro shooting but non gun owner, can't see what you find to complain about.

It is relevant, because gun laws are under review, and it is in the public interest because we are all potential victims if the gun laws go wrong.

Granting a shotgun licence to a child who us under the age of criminal responsibility is also worthy of discussion and is news in that I bet virtually nobody except those involved knew this was possible.

Most of the piece goes to support responsible gun ownership, and highlights the point that young guns have to be supervised so what is the problem?
Because the subtext is that this situation is, in some ill defined way, extraordinary, or that it is a problem which has not been addressed. Neither is the case. The fact that a child may have a shotgun licence when below the age of legal responsibility is irrelevant because they may not use any shotgun so licenced without adult supervision.

I heard this on Radio 5Live and the context was that the presenter was suggesting that there was a problem which needs to be dealt with. I'm not aware of any recent shotgun rampages by supervised seven year olds. What's the big deal? In reality this was lobbying disguised as news, and that is why I complained.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#15
CPunk is 100% on the mark, this isnt anti BBC ranting though lord knows they deserve it, this is about pointing out to a monolithic public service that they need to do their job and not lobby against legal activities!
in these times of financial restrictions I am minded to remember the BBC being taken to task by Square Eyes in Private Eye. Why do we need on the 10 O'clock news to see a live report from outside the law courts or a now closed office block, it adds nothing to the story which couldnt be added using the live footage shot whilst the reporter was there during open jhours other than to increase costs!
BBC get a grip!
 
M

Mr_Tigger

Guest
#16
Granting the certificate in the name of the child is an excellent opportunity to allow the child to feel trusted, rewarded and to take ownership of something they know is quite serious. It can provide a wonderful life lesson and is a milestone in his/her maturing process.
 
#17
You could not be more wrong.

Shooting in UK gets a pounding because it is seen as a niche sport, a few strange country folks and some posh gits wearing tweed, and some odd balls who hang around ranges in remote areas.
Germany has this bit right, participation and acceptability from all tiers of society, including plenty of rich 40-50 year old lawyers that you would wish to alienate from your club......
I'm sorry alsacien but I tend to agree with matron here. The number of people with £5k guns, a bespoke shooting suit, a brand new Range Rover, an £800 dog from a "finishing school" and no more idea of etiquette or safe shooting conduct beggers belief. If I had a fiver for every one of these twice a year shots I've "advised" to break their gun before putting it into slips or unload before crossing a fence/gate...it spoils everyone's fun.

Why don't they just buy a tie with a pheasant on and go into the office and walt it up on Monday. They could even buy a "I'm walting as a shot but out of decency not attending" license. From the local post office of course...
 
#18
Yes I saw this on Breakfast news this morning,
misleading article making it sound like there is no process for shotgun certificates..
Complaint duly sent to the BBC!
 
#19
Many moons ago as an Army Cadet I received good quality instruction and experience on using firearms from the age of 13, granted this age is a bit older than in the "report" but, it did me no harm. In fact I gained a valuable sense of the danger associated with improper use! Plus, not one of the hundreds of children I was in with have since committed forearms offences therefore, my perspective is that controlled exposure can only really be a good thing.
 
#20
Many moons ago as an Army Cadet I received good quality instruction and experience on using firearms from the age of 13, granted this age is a bit older than in the "report" but, it did me no harm. In fact I gained a valuable sense of the danger associated with improper use! Plus, not one of the hundreds of children I was in with have since committed forearms offences therefore, my perspective is that controlled exposure can only really be a good thing.



I was the same. Went to boarding school at 11 with compulsary ccf from 13. At that age we had set shooting lessons and by 16 I was a competant shot on the .22 martini action and 303. My family have always shot and I was joining shoots at an early age doing beating with the odd days shooting with a 20 bore. After the army came the police and had my last 2 years as a firearms licencing officer. Both my boys shoot, my youngest is 10 and knew his way round a weapon long before he had a chance to shoot. I've issued licences to young lads from shooting families who live and breathe the sport. It should be a sport that we are encouraging and supporting yet the drivel spouted by the beeb is yet another knock in the constant tide aiming to drive this way of life into the same route as fox hunting. There is no issue with youngsters having licences, as said, they may hold a license but they won't be in possession of the shotguns unless under direct supervision if an adult and holder.

Non story
 

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