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Young Muslims want Sharia Law in UK

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
spiffy said:
Nehustan said:
... I prefer the paradigm of hypothesis, testing, reproduction, testing, theory, testing, and falsifiability. Under that criteria the statement you quote falls down, unless we consider the actual meaning of retrograde in a stellar sense, that being 'it' appears to move backward from our position, but does in fact continue in its continuing movement forward.

The above is I assume, meant to impress ? YAWN

Not really more meant to illustrate that people should understand the origin and root of a word before they use it. I think given the current state of the muslims retrograde is a fine word to use, however, unlike Churchill, I understand what the word means.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
101 astronomy inbound...

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[align=center]Source[/align]
 

spiffy

War Hero
Nehustan said:
Not really more meant to illustrate that people should understand the origin and root of a word before they use it. I think given the current state of the muslims retrograde is a fine word to use, however, unlike Churchill, I understand what the word means.

...and now you think you're better than Winston
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
Well at least it would seem my mother's tongue had been English longer than his mother's tongue. Shame really, history had been slightly different (but then it wouldn't be history would it) I may still be speaking la vieille langue de la cour, rather than my schoolboy French assisted by Altavista...
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
spiffy said:
Nehustan said:
Not really more meant to illustrate that people should understand the origin and root of a word before they use it. I think given the current state of the muslims retrograde is a fine word to use, however, unlike Churchill, I understand what the word means.

...and now you think you're better than Winston

That quote in your sig looks pretty silly now in light of the etymology of the word 'retrograde'....like I said Horse's mouth...
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
Random_Task said:
Nehustan said:
hp_sauce said:
Meanwhile, this is what is happening in Canada. Or at least in Quebec.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/01/30/canada.rules.reut/index.html

...yep heard about this on BBC radio this morning, I have two French words for them (well actually a genitive construction but I digress) 'de Molay'

I would wager the town of Herouxville have no intention of re-enacting the exploits of de Molay.

Random, I have a sneaking suspicion you might be right. Tho' it might be nice if they learnt a templar soundbite/exclamation 'Ya Allah' :twisted:

(edited to add Eco said you can always tell a lunatic by the fact he invariably mentions the Templar within 5 minutes, Oh Umberto, I'm improving, I'm definitely improving....)
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
In reference to an older thread they should have rejoined the UK in '56 :thumright: Like I said at the time the French would have kept Bliar in check with their call for that most medieval form of warfare...the siege :plotting:

(and the French might do well to study the Levantine part of their history :twisted: Like Napolean's savants in Aegypt previously, they may then be a little more savvy to their own immigrants)
 

Infury8r

Old-Salt
C'mon guys............ it ain't all bad........

Needless to say, Islamic locales are generally ill advised for “sex adventurers.” Here are some highlights, culled from

http://www.davesdaily.com/funpages/bizarre-sex-laws.htm


1. Most Middle Eastern countries recognize the following Islamic law: “After having sexual relations with a lamb, it is a mortal sin to eat its flesh.”

2. In Lebanon, men are legally allowed to have sex with animals, but the animals must be female. Having sexual relations with a male animal is punishable by death.

3. In Bahrain, a male doctor may legally examine a woman’s genitals, but is forbidden from looking directly at them during the examination. He may only see their reflection in a mirror.

4. Muslims are banned from looking at the genitals of a corpse. This also applies to undertakers; the sex organs of the deceased must be covered with a brick or piece of wood at all times.

5. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
Not sure of your point here Infury8r?

...are you suggesting that all planes be diverted to the Falkland Islands?
 

TheDoctor

Swinger
Nehustan said:
In reference to an older thread they should have rejoined the UK in '56 :thumright: Like I said at the time the French would have kept Bliar in check with their call for that most medieval form of warfare...the siege :plotting:

(and the French might do well to study the Levantine part of their history :twisted: Like Napolean's savants in Aegypt previously, they may then be a little more savvy to their own immigrants)

Sounds good. What are we laying siege to exactly? Not a scholar of history myself but fail to remember many cities holding out against JDAMs etc.

May be worth a try in parts of northern england though... Where was this survey carried out?

(Hope this lowers the academic tone of this thread by the way)

:headbang:
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
TheDoctor said:
Nehustan said:
In reference to an older thread they should have rejoined the UK in '56 :thumright: Like I said at the time the French would have kept Bliar in check with their call for that most medieval form of warfare...the siege :plotting:

(and the French might do well to study the Levantine part of their history :twisted: Like Napolean's savants in Aegypt previously, they may then be a little more savvy to their own immigrants)

Sounds good. What are we laying siege to exactly? Not a scholar of history myself but fail to remember many cities holding out against JDAMs etc.

May be worth a try in parts of northern england though... Where was this survey carried out?

(Hope this lowers the academic tone of this thread by the way)

:headbang:


I think the point might be, if I can put in the mouth of the French...'Ribbit'

erm...I mean that if a city/country is laid to siege, the need to drop JDAMs and/or employ catapult is minimised :thumleft:
 

Sneezeclown

Swinger
Infury8r said:
5. The penalty for masturbation in Indonesia is decapitation.

Good excuse to go down to BlokM then!
 

ericthellama

War Hero
Rocketeer said:
Interesting and lively debate here..
As for Muslims outbreeding the ' indigenous' population.. won't happen.. studies show that immigrants to western nations tend to adopt western practices regarding management of children and that their birth rate reduces to the 'state average' over a generation as thye become i9nvolved in ' personal growth ' i.e. seeking home, wealth, job improvement, etc... so overwhelming the country through rapid birth rate isn;t an issue [ check US figures regarding Mexican/Latino influxes over generations ]

quote]

I am not sure that we can compare ourselves with the States since they have a strong culture of being 'Americans' and their whole ethnic history is based around absorbing immigrants. We are still welcoming in very different cultures and there is no compunction for them to integrate with their host culture.

Having been away during the evenings activity on this thread I have to say that I agree with Churchills views. My own personal experience over thirty years bears him out.
 

OldSnowy

LE
Book Reviewer
Regarding the heated debate on 'outbreeding', whereas it is correct that most immigrants adapt to the norms of the country that they live in, this can be completely negated if, as is the case in the UK in large numbers, a spouse is brought in from 'the old country' for a partner born and raised here.

This perpetuates the problems of language, and maintains a continual feeling of being an outsider. This has just not happen, ever, in any other wave of immigration to the UK. Even now, it is pretty specific to certain groups, and is a recognised problem.

I will endeavour to get some sources and links for this.
 

ericthellama

War Hero
The Today Program on Radio 4 this morning once again highlighted the issue that the provision of interpreters was eliminating the need for immigrants to learn the language. Their example was a Bangladeshi lady who had been here 22 years and still didn't speak English. She said there was no need sincve an interpreter was provided.

Once again, my point is that while there is no compunction for immigrants to integrate, the point about them adapting to the norms of the country is not valid. Rocketeers example of Mexicans moving to America can't be considered a valid example since Mexican and American culture share a common religion and are quite similar. Islamic culture is very different and will take much more effort to assimilate. While there is no pressure for that to happen, it won't.

Edited for Mong spolling.
 

Biped

LE
Book Reviewer
The multi-cultural question is one that can be answered without the application of the title 'racist' if thought out carefully.

Like the Quebecs, the customs of the land should take primacy over immigrant customs. We do not stone women to death, nor should we allow it, we should not allow honour killings and anyone found guilty of such is a murderer and nothing less, we do not chop hands of and should not allow it, we are a secular society and should not allow the introduction of religious laws as far as they interfere with common or parliamentary law.

If you wish to be granted citizenship, you ought to agree to abide by our laws, show respect for our customs, our people and our system of government. Not only this, but you must learn the language of your host, learn something about how the host country operates, what its principles are and agree to work for the greater good of the country.

Failure to integrate with the host culture will always lead to the situation we have now - that of ghettos, or riots and the growing ire of the indigenous peoples.

It has already been mentioned, but I'll repeat that granting citizenship (or the right to be a subject of HM) is an honour that should only be granted to those that show they are worthy of and willing to receive it.

If the parents of the 2nd or 3rd generation of children now becoming radicalised had been under some form of obligation to know more of and integrate with the people of the United Kingdom, perhaps their children would respect it more now. As it stands, the children are radicalised because they grow up in 'cultural' ghettos amongst their own people, even the dissaffected ones, within, but not part of the host nation. With every arranged marriage with another from the their home countries, who again do not speak the language or understand the customs, the message of seperation is reinforced.

They get the least of either culture, but more so of their own than that of the host. They are of, and are surrounded by the dissafected people from the 'old' country who speak wistfully of the culture and people they left behind, whilst never being fully accepted in the host. This can only lead to a bitterness that they are neither fully included in the host country or the country of their parents. Some work harder to integrate here and are the voices of moderation, others seek to make the culture in the host country to be what they understand of the country their parents left and as such, are the voices of radicalisation.

As benefits are 'means tested', so ought citizenship be, but a mental means test.
 

ericthellama

War Hero
I agree Biped. In fact I am sure that many people would. It not is not an issue of race at all. It is an issue of culture. The difficulty is that we now have a rapidly entrenched view that all cultures in Britain are equally valid. I don't agree. There have been few official views expressed that immigrants should make an effort in integrate. Until the media and the wittering metropolitan classes change their tune, we will continue to be portrayed as small minded racists.

I am of the view that incoming cultures have a huge amount to contribute to our nation but because they exist in seperate ghettos these positive influences are never realised. A progressive integration into our host culture may allow those benefits to be realised.

People need an identity and a sense of belonging. The British sense of identity has been portrayed as being without value in the 'modern world' and I like many others can come to view my motherland as a place to be, not a place to belong.
 

intli

War Hero
ericthellama said:
The Today Program on Radio 4 this morning once again highlighted the issue that the provision of interpreters was eliminating the need for immigrants to learn the language. Their example was a Bangladeshi lady who had been here 22 years and still didn't speak English. She said there was no need sincve an interpreter was provided.

It was quoted in the news today that Tower Hamlets has spent 1 million pounds on out of hours classes for 5,000 Bangladeshi children in the borough to learn............Bangladeshi! Victory for common sense! Bangladeshis are amongst the most impoverished nations, plus the community in UK is in the bottom group for earners and poverty as they end up doing the unskilled jobs. Re-emphasising their native language at Council tax payers expense does not seem a way of improving their lot I'm afraid. Or am I wrong? It's one thing for the parents to teach the children their own language at home, but surely the schools should be teaching ......English? You couldn't make it up! :frustrated:
 

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