You must be joking....

#1
Words fail me at this point in time. One of Matty's mates is a good friend of mine and she will be understandably mightily pissed off when she sees this.

I'm not going to go into a Yank bashing mode but how the fcuk can the Americans seriously contemplate doing this when they know how high feelings are over this incidient?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/berkshire/6557699.stm

A US pilot involved in the friendly fire killing of a UK soldier is returning to fight in Iraq next month, it has emerged.

Lance Corporal of Horse Matty Hull, 25, of Windsor, Berkshire, died when his Scimitar tank came under fire from a US A-10 "Tank Buster" plane in March 2003.

One of two pilots involved in the incident is now being deployed in Iraq as part of the Idaho Air Guard.

A spokesman said he was deployed due to his "extensive combat experience".

'Unlawfully killed'

Air Guard spokesman 1st Lt Tony Vincelli said the pilot's squadron would focus on providing close air support for ground troops, but for security reasons the exact location of the deployment would not be made public.

The other pilot involved in the "blue on blue" attack on British scimitar armoured vehicles near Basra has since retired.

At an inquest earlier this year, Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker concluded L/Cp Hull was unlawfully killed.

He told Oxford Coroners' Court L/Cp Hull's death had been "an entirely avoidable tragedy" and that the US fighter pilots' attack on the British convoy of four vehicles near Basra "amounted to an assault" and was criminal.

The US military has not released the names of the A-10 pilots, who were cleared of wrongdoing by the military.
 
#2
The word Overstretch leaps to mind.

Same as us.
 

Fugly

LE
DirtyBAT
#3
The words "American pilot gets off scot-free with manslaughter and gets free ticket to go do it again" spring to mind.

The cover-up was bad enough, this is the ultimate insult.
 
#4
i served in the 1st attempt mate,
and i remember the feelings when the " allies" hit 2 of our armour in 1991.

now i aint dissing the yanks,
in fact i have a few good friends in the us forces, that i still keep in touch with.

i know that feelings can run high, ( been there, done that etc, )
and i also know that , that is no consillation to the familys who have lost loved ones..
combat aint got no set rules,


i do feel for you and your concerns..

but please remember, that the pilot concerned, certantly knows what he has done in his past,
and that man has to live with the concequences of his actions..
 

Fugly

LE
DirtyBAT
#5
Maybe so.

It was how it was handled that boils my blood.

If an enquiry had been conducted afterwards, with the Americans being upfront and forthright as our closest allies are supposed to be, then maybe his remorse at his mistakes could have resulted in him being able to return to duty anyway.

But no, it was spun, covered up, lies, lies, lies etc etc, and this whole episode leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

IMHO, he should not be allowed back.
 
#6
FECKING UNBELIEVABLE. you just cannot trust the ruddy yanks. wonder what would happen if we did that. Bliar would turn those responsible over to his ass kissing buddy Bush most like.Am i angry YOU FECKING WELL BETTER BELIEVE IT. :frustrated:
 
#7
Fugly said:
Maybe so.

It was how it was handled that boils my blood.

If an enquiry had been conducted afterwards, with the Americans being upfront and forthright as our closest allies are supposed to be, then maybe his remorse at his mistakes could have resulted in him being able to return to duty anyway.

But no, it was spun, covered up, lies, lies, lies etc etc, and this whole episode leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

IMHO, he should not be allowed back.
i agree mate, it was handled badly,
but it was handled, by his superiors,

the man himself is also a victim in this sorry tale..
none off us, know what this man is having to live with..!!
and yes i agree, it,s not a good idea to send the same man back into the field
 
#8
Fugly said:
Maybe so.

It was how it was handled that boils my blood.

If an enquiry had been conducted afterwards, with the Americans being upfront and forthright as our closest allies are supposed to be, then maybe his remorse at his mistakes could have resulted in him being able to return to duty anyway.

But no, it was spun, covered up, lies, lies, lies etc etc, and this whole episode leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.

IMHO, he should not be allowed back.
I believe an enquiry was conducted afterwards, both one by the Yanks and by the Brits, in 2004. I'm sure someone will come up with a link to the British report, where it concluded that everyone was doing their job as best they could. The whole hassle was over the mishandling of the civilian coroner's inquest a few months ago.

In the meantime, the pilot still has a job, has not had any actions against him, so what legal reason would there be to prohibit is further operational use?

NTM
 
#9
California_Tanker said:
In the meantime, the pilot still has a job, has not had any actions against him, so what legal reason would there be to prohibit is further operational use?

NTM
It's not so much the Brit findings, Cal_Tank, although they in themselves are damning enough and if the boot was on the other foot, you can bet your fückin' arrse the Septics would be howling for the pilot's blood.

What's really despicable is that a so-called "ally" routinely carries out cover-ups to "protect Septics" from justice in other countries no matter what they've done.

They did exactly the same around the end of the Nineties, when a couple of Septic jockeys decided to fly under the cable of a cable-lift in northern Italy, but ended up severing it with the tailplane instead; plunging a few dozen people to their deaths. The culprits were rapidly spirited out of the country and a (purely Septic) investigation determined that they were not at fault. I wonder why!

And exactly the same happened in the case of this fückin' reckless lunatic Kohntopp. In reality, all he wanted was a "kill", since, although he's been a pilot for yonks, it was his very first combat mission.

Isn't it about time the Septics learned to fight wars properly?

MsG
 
#10
The crew of the EA-6B were charged with negligent homicide, involuntary manslaughter and dereliction of duty, with jurisdiction being passed to the US rather than Italian authorities under the terms of a NATO agreement.

The two back-seaters didn't go to court at all, while the pilot and the navigator were sent for court-martial. The pilot was CM'd first, and was acquitted. His defence was based on the fact that the cable car wasn't marked on the maps provided for mission planning, and that there was a failure in the altimeter system; the first claim was undeniably true upon examination of the maps used, and AIUI, there was some evidence to support his contention that the altimeter was malfunctioning.

The pair were then tried for obstructing justice The pilot was given six months (released after four and a half) and both he and the navigator were dismissed from the USMC.

There was an interesting set of letters in the NY Times around the time of the acquittal for homicide/manslaughter - here
 
#11
The simple truth is unless it's a walkover, they're no good at fighting wars. The true measure of a fighting force goes on between the ears of those involved.

Countless hordes of dumb Yanks blasting a bloody path to freedom does not an effective army make. They're gung ho; trigger happy; impatient; bereft of thought, consideration or restraint; wanting to kill, kill, kill. It's all rooted in excitability; poor concentration; ignorance, and the complete inability to register that people sitting in tanks on a battlefield not displaying the stars and stripes may also have families, friends, loved ones, and a desire to get the hell out of there and back to some sort of normality as soon as they can.

The world beyond the hermetically sealed US of A is chocker with intelligent, feeling people who have the same humanity as them, but wisdom in spades. It's that wisdom that sets us apart.

These dumb fcukers think they can bomb sense into strangers or dish out death willy-nilly, in the name of bogus democracy, or smoking out 'terrorists' - and with no consequences.

They may have the numbers and the technical know-how, but they lack tact, sympathy, empathy, understanding, and most of all, a thirst for knowledge. If they had this last one, they'd realise there's no need for arming themselves to the teeth in the first place.
 
#12
frenchperson said:
but they lack tact, sympathy, empathy
I'm sure the families of all those US servicemen who have given their lives in the last century, fighting alongside us and for a common cause, would appreciate your tact, sympathy and empathy. :roll:
You need a norrower brush a broader palette and a smaller wineglass .
 
#13
I was speaking generally. I don't paint every American with the same brush. I don't deny there are American heroes. It's just that there a lot more villains - and probably by default, rather than pro-actively so.
 
#14
frenchperson said:
I I don't paint every American with the same brush.
Well unless you retract your previous statement about countless hordes of yanks, yada yada yada, then yes, you do pretty much paint them all with the same brush.
 
#16
No retraction, no apology, therefore, I take it your original post and sentiment still holds.
Once again Frenchperson, we have your measure.
 
#18
Once again, despite the serious intention of the initial post to highlight something of interest, the thread has denigrated into one-on-one slagging.

For once can we stay on thread?
 
#19
frenchperson said:
The simple truth is unless it's a walkover, they're no good at fighting wars. The true measure of a fighting force goes on between the ears of those involved.

Countless hordes of dumb Yanks blasting a bloody path to freedom does not an effective army make. They're gung ho; trigger happy; impatient; bereft of thought, consideration or restraint; wanting to kill, kill, kill. It's all rooted in excitability; poor concentration; ignorance, and the complete inability to register that people sitting in tanks on a battlefield not displaying the stars and stripes may also have families, friends, loved ones, and a desire to get the hell out of there and back to some sort of normality as soon as they can.

The world beyond the hermetically sealed US of A is chocker with intelligent, feeling people who have the same humanity as them, but wisdom in spades. It's that wisdom that sets us apart.

These dumb fcukers think they can bomb sense into strangers or dish out death willy-nilly, in the name of bogus democracy, or smoking out 'terrorists' - and with no consequences.

They may have the numbers and the technical know-how, but they lack tact, sympathy, empathy, understanding, and most of all, a thirst for knowledge. If they had this last one, they'd realise there's no need for arming themselves to the teeth in the first place.
Bulltwinkies... were the US military chocked full of sociopaths we would not have an insurgency in Iraq as every moving target would have been engaged with no reprecussions long ago and the populations centers would be rubble... sort of like what the Russians did to Grozny. Such generalisations as you are making are outrageous and display a shocking lack of knowledge concerning operations in SW Asia.

It would be wonderfull if folk performed at 100% efficiency during their first engagement but anyone who has seen the elephant knows that is a pipe dream. Bad decisions are made in the heat of the moment and accidents occur... with tragic results. Heck, during Desert Storm my outfit's (2nd ACR) first casualties were to the USAF... our lead elements were much further ahead than the zoomies expected them to be and were targeted accidentally. Had better coordination perhaps that would not have happened but shit happens.

Armchair quarterbacking what should or should not have happened long afterwards without the benefit of being there serves no purpose at this point. Hopefully the method of operation has been changed to prevent future occurances of fratricide.

Just a sidenote, blue on blue during this conflict has occured less than in ANY previous war fought by any nation...
 
#20
Bugsy said:
and if the boot was on the other foot, you can bet your fückin' arrse the Septics would be howling for the pilot's blood.
I've seen this claim a few times now, but is there any basis behind it? We've had a few friendly fire incidents of our own over here, the controversy has not been over 'whodunnit' and 'hang the bugger who did it' but over the handling of the investigations and reports afterwards. Tillman's death being a very public case in point. Nobody seems to care who pulled the trigger.

NTM
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
EX_STAB The NAAFI Bar 22
gpmg_762 The NAAFI Bar 25
P Army Reserve 7

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top