You know you want to vote for New Labour... (5)

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by whitecity, Mar 10, 2010.

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  1. UK Trade: Jan 2010 deficit widened to £3.8bn


    The weakening of the pound should assist UK exporters and discourage UK consumers from purchasing imports.

    However, welcome to the world of New Labour economics...!!!
  2. On the other hand:

    "I think the government is right to say that it would be a bad idea to slam on the brake right now because the economy is still so fragile.”
    Richard Lambert, Director General of the CBI (not noted for being overly socialist), commenting on proposed Tory cuts in public spending.
  3. Yes... Paw Broone will be justifying himself to himself.... That he really has 'Saved the World'... and the UK is still best placed to come out the recession..... Delusions of a man who is a tad disconnected from reality.

    So Ali Darling is going to announce the Last Budget on the 28th of March. So that means a May election....

    Oh well, I might as well watch PMQs today, Wednesday, and see if the Dear Old Galoot, Broone, is going to announce anything new.... probably not. One just hopes that the Boy Dave Cameron is going to make a bit more of a mess of Broone's Flawed Pscyhology..... I really would like to see Cyclops in a 'Towering Inferno of a Rage', in public and on TV...... :)

    Maybe someone on the inside could hide his Meds..... :p
  4. No offence, but listening to political commentary from you is like being taught to masturbate by your mother.
  5. The statistics above indicate the spending habits of the UK consumer and the ability of UK industry to produce goods desireable to purchasers the world over.

    Nothing to do with the spending plans (fiscal policy) of either New Labour or Conservative per se, much more to do with long term economic and social policy.

    Still, I guess the immediate attempt to discredit the Tories is the best (only) ploy remaining to the New Labour/socialist faithful. I mean, HMG and the PLP/NEC hardly leave you much room to defend policy, do they?
  6. Remind me again which Government decided that it would be a good idea to destroy the industrial base of the country and focus almost exclusively on the service and financial sectors as the future of the economy? And who's social policies encouraged the development of a consumerist society and unsustainable individual financial aspirations? I agree that New Labour hasn't done as much as it might have done to reverse the trend but it is somewhat disingenuos to suggest that a Tory government would've been radically different in it's economic approach. Still, rather than accept recession - red in tooth and claw a la the early 80s and 90s - as a fundamental by-product of free trade, Labour chose to support the banking system (a mainstay of our economy) and to avoid cuts in public spending in the short-term, judging that limiting unemployment needed to be it's main focus (unemployment is 450,000 less than predicted). If they'd done the opposite, people would have still trashed them. That's politics for you.

    I'm neither New Labour or a socialist. But it's a bit rich for a Tory to accuse the government of being evasive on policy. Quite what the NEC has to do with anything is beyond me. In any case, some of Labour's stated economic policies include the Backing Young Britain Plan, the Future Jobs Fund, Homeowners Mortgage Support, increasing the main capital allowance to 40%, deferring tax and national insurance payments for some small and medium businesses and government support (research and financial) for technology and advanced manufacturing.
  7. :D

    FORMER_FYRDMAN LE Book Reviewer

    Your only comment on this thread that stems from knowledge and experience.

    The decline of British manufacture pre-dates Thatcher and arguably pre-dates the Second World War (See 'Audit of War', Correlli Barnett). The post-WW2 social settlement coupled with aggressive and myopic trade unionism essentially precluded any serious regeneration of heavy industry.

    Subsidising uncompetitive inductries was no way forward and neither is packing the public sector (John Prescott's master plan).

    There's going to be a load of slash and burn - you got a glimpse of why when the money markets reacted to the news of the Tories' low polling - and it's only been the prospect of a Tory Government that's allowed Labour the freedom to behave as it has.

    Like Brown's position on funding Iraq and Afghanistan, the story you're trying to push doesn't stack up - Labour's programme since 1997 has been far more harmful to competitive manufacturing than anything Thatcher got up to, particularly your hero Gordon Brown's habit of increasing Income Tax via National Insurance contributions (semantically it's not Income Tax, but then, semantically, defence spending increased) or using NIC's to offset other industrial taxes (such as the Climate Change Levy) which hit heavy manufacturing industry (big energy users, relatively small workforce) whilst benefitting big employers like the City, MacDonald's et al.

    The crash wasn't Brown's fault but the appalling state of our national finances when it hit most certainly was.
  9. No. You remind me if you can.

    Bit tricky isn't it given that the current state is the end product of a series of poor and ill advised economic policies by a series of governments dating back several decades. For example, state subsidies and nationalisation of uncompetitive and dieing industries may have kept people in work in the short term, but lead to longer term uncompetitiveness and ultimate failure.

    Mind you, I feel the root problem stems from a belief by the population - encouraged by deluded notions of a socialist paradise of riches for all - that they have a 'right' to constant improvements in standard of living whilst at the very same time having to make ever less effort to obtain it.

    Political parties of all colours have simply massaged and fed-off this misbelief to obtain power.

    Just about all of them since WW2. Probably before that too. Remember, it's the left of centre parties which have encouraged the less well off to delude themselves into thinking that they have greater spending power than they really have.

    None of which has made any substantial difference to the problem. All it has done is massaged the problem for selfish political gain - and thus deepened the malaise rather than resolving it.
  10. So, which party should we vote for WC? Or are you going to do your normal "I don't have an answer" dodge?
  11. Nope. No dodging from me.

    I will not attempt to tell anybody else how they should vote, but would encourage them to consider my stance.

    Here's my personal opinion. My vote is my sign of approval. My vote is my way of indicating who I would like to represent me politically at whatever level the election is being held for.

    I will therefore withold my vote, not in protest, but because I do not consider any of the likely candidates to be worthy of my mandate. This is based upon two key elements.

    1) The UK electoral system is no longer 'fit-for-purpose'. The UK system is designed for a constituency to elect an official to represent their interests in parliament. In reality, the elected official proceeds to represent his/her party's interests over and above those of his/her constituents. I find this both 'unconstitutional' and damaging to long term democracy. I understand the counter-argument as to why this is allowed to continue, but do not accept it as either substantial nor justifiable.

    2) Given point 1), since I have no choice in deciding which individual will best represent my interests, I have to go with the flow and choose a party. None of the parties available deserve my mandate.

    Remember, all the time that we discuss the relative popularity between parties, the cold fact remains that New Labour 'won' the last election with 35% of those who voted, but with a mandate of the voting public of less than 22%. In effect, the 'real' winners of the last election were the non-voters with over 17 million (as opposed to New Labour's 9.5 million and the Conservatives 8.8 million). Of course, we're a quite inhomogeneous group, but we are the very people that politics needs to recapture for UK democracy to be rehabilitated.

    No doubt the political class will dismiss my thoughts as immature and a waste of my democratic right. I view that stance as being nothing more than an acceptance of their own selfishness and inability to face up to reality.

    I thus encourage others to vote for the person (or the party) that they believe represents their interests. If none represent your interests, don't give away your mandate to the 'least worst option'.
  12. I'd agree with almost all of that, though I'd argue that it is easy to undervalue the good constituency MP, as most of what he or she does for those who seek his or her help won't be seen on the news (and often is so personal it won't be seen anywhere). But if that is the case, why the thread title? It just makes you look like a party hack instead of someone with good points to make. Even Ashie hasn't, as far as I can remember, started any threads along the lines of 'More Tory Lies', etc.
  13. No offence, but listening to political commentary from you is like being taught to masturbate by your mother. :)

    None taken, My Dear..... I was 'self taught' when I went to school.... there were some nice lassies at my school...... As for my 'Political Comentary' or Blah... well it just reflects my cynicisms about our elected Boys and Girls in Parliament... and it's no worse or better than many other commentators on this Forum.

    Of course, many are far more articulate than what I am.... Y'see, I'm just a Common Soldier.... retired now of course.... But I shall probably vote for the Limp-Dems.. or for the Boy Dave.

    I do not want to see a Labour Party returned to office. They are all pseudo-marxist control freaks as far as I am conencered. Although Mr Brown gave quite a good performance in todays PMQs (Wednesday 10th March), is ths because Brown is under more and more pressure, now that we are weeks away from an election, or is he improving his performance at the expense of Cameron? Who knows!!

    I still believe that a returned Mr Brown and Labour to government, will be a disaster for the UK - Because it will just be "More of the Same!" More crap, more laws, more tinkering, more 'Targets' and 'Performance Indicators', more 'Management By Tick Box' hence more bureaucrats.

    You Pays your money and takes your choice!! :)
  14. Well, I am sure we shall all look forward to 5 threads on why we want to vote for the tories, 5 for the lib dems, 5 for the greens, 5 for Plaid, 5 for SNP, 5 for Respect, 5 for UKIP.

    Damn. I promised myself I wouldn't feed the troll today and just couldn't help myself.
  15. Thank you for recognising that I am no 'Tory Boy' and that my comments re the performance of the current government are based upon my disappointment with their actual policies and not just mudslinging.

    You will notice that I am posting official statistics. I am also posting the statistics in their totality - that's to say, not cherry-picking one good element as HMG is so keen to do. New Labour appears in the thread titles because they are the party at the helm. Insert Conservative in 5 years time, perhaps.

    I only appear to be a 'party hack' to you, because you seem to have convinced yourself that only people with an ideological and/or party political bias can find fault in New Labour. I've got news for you. At the last election, for every 'Tory Boy' who didn't vote New Labour, there was another who voted for some other party/ideology/fantasy and yet another 2 of us who didn't vote for New Labour for non-ideological/party political reasons.

    Re the "good constituency MP" element. Some certainly do exist. But I feel this 'personal' touch is not the job that I want my national representative to be doing. I want him/her fighting at the national policy level, not fighting to get Auntie Flo higher up the NHS waiting queue. Again, this is a symptom of where the current system is flawed and should be replaced not trumpeted as a wonder.

    The thread title is quite simple. The contents are beyond reproach. If the statistics are positive, then I don't omit them. If you don't like the continual drip drip of bad news, I suggest you take it up with the policy makers not the messenger. :wink: