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Is this setting a dangerous precident?

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#1
dodgey relatives get cash payout for asshole cousin shot doing illegal stuff in the balkans!

what sh1te is this!

"But soldiers are human. In this case the fall from the Army's usual high standards led to tragic consequences for the victims and their families.

"The Queen's uniform is not a licence to commit wrongdoing, and it has never been suggested that it should be."


but who claims against the assholes who injure and kill british servicemen?


http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13050982,00.html
 
#5
MM, I agree with you 100%!! :D

What the h*ll is going on? It seems that the 'KLA soldiers' applied some time ago for temporary residency. Doh!!
 

Unknown_Quantity

War Hero
Moderator
#6
So to recap:

They were firing shots into the air in a crowded area.

They refused to stop at a VCP when told to by British soldiers.

They got shot.

It's the fault of the MOD.

Presumably the judge (a strange title given such dubious judgement) will now issue a new, crystal clear set of ROE telling every soldier when they can and when they can not fire at people purposely not stopping at VCPs, firing into the air in crowded areas. :evil:
 
#7
This situation is utterly dreadful. I actually had soldiers asking me what the h*ll 'the score is' today.

When events like these allow our soldiers (and let's face it, the chain of command as well :D ) to lose focus, we are on a very sticky wicket indeed.
 
#8
There can be two outcomes from this:

1) Soldiers being less focused and more hesitant when under threat, which needles to say will be at the cost British armed service personnel.

2) Less casualties and more deaths at the hands of the British army, in one example vehicles failing to stop now have a phosphorus lob in them (after it is immobilized! no john virgo trick shots), to subdue and render the target(s)...... dead.

Of course neither will happen, but in the current climate such a ruling is dangerous, and could lead to lose of life both sides of the spectrum.
 
#9
as a further update it has been told to me that 'military witnesses' believed that an undue amount of force was employed, to whit almost 30 rounds were used.

but in a built up area, with civviys and the rest of your patrol around I truly believe that it's better to be 'safe than sorry'.
no hollywood rounds through the shoulder or shooting the gun out of his hand will do!
 
#10
This is simply unbelievable. What are we going to have next? Being told we are only allowed to fire if we are killed? This 'Judge' probably has know idea what the situation is like in the forces and can sit on moral judgement of those of us that have signed up to protect our country and others. I am due to go to Sandhurst in on the May intake and the more I read on here and in the press the more worried I am that one day I am going to be pulled up on charges, however trumped up, for doing a job I actually believe is vital and honourable!
 
#11
This will be Mr Justice Elias, aka the fireman's friend, who ruled that four trumptonites who had been sacked for insubordination and harassment should be reinstated and paid £250,000 for their trouble.

The firemen had been supported in their 'struggle' by his lardship John Prescott, the Deputy Dear Leader.

Clearly the learned Judge likes a good lefty sob story.

And I thought judges were meant to be impartial and apolitical - less Lord Hutton, Lord Saville et al.....
 

Mr Happy

LE
Moderator
#13
Is it just me or is always the Para's that's blowing people away in cars???

Of course the Paras had to make a quick decision and in so doing chose the wrong one, but then they do that a lot don't they..... There could be some argument that they get put in places where these decisions are called upon more often but I've never met a Para who was shy at the thought of blowing away some guy for some thing. A credit to their training of course.

Beware the characters that defend this action in a peacekeeping mission in Kosovo but slag the Americans off in Iraq - you might be guilty of double standards....
 
#14
If it's the same incident, it occurred just as we deployed there in 2001.
There's always a lot of 'celebratory' gunfire in the Balkans as we know, but it seems that the Paras may have taken this for an overt act of violence towards the Serbs living in the block of flats outside of which the incident occurred.
In any case, they ignored the warnings to drop their weapons and were 'dropped' themselves.
Fair cop, I thought, considering...
just got back from there last week and it's still a sh*thole and the women still wear tight, aarse-hugging jeans and have plywood teeth.
 
#15
Yesterday while sat waiting in mates house, myself and another friend (RSM) were chatting. Mates teenage son came over and asked about the army etc said he wanted to be a soldier like his dad RSM: "dont join the army lad, i wouldnt wish the army on anyone. The army isnt what it use to be, join the RAF if you want to join a force. You ask your dad and he'll say the same; your a good kid dont do what we do".

Ive never seen him (RSM) that serious when not in uniform, a very sad day i think - one of the finest men ive ever had the pleasure of working with, who has served queen and country (and politicians) for nearly 2 decades and he says: "i wouldnt wish the army on anyone".
 
#16
According to the Bellylaugh some expert stated in court that the soldiers aimed at the car not the two chaps with weapons. The defendants also refused to say they were trying to protect the Serbs but stated they thought they were coming under fire from the car.

Apparently if they had said they were protecting the Serbs it would have been alright then.

The so called offenders were the CO's protection party and all Cpls.

The so called forensic expert who said they aimed at the car wasn't named but one has to wonder if he has ever been in a position where he has been shot at and had to reply.

The judge and his comments remind us all that juries are a good thing.

The Albanian legal thingy made lots of comments about soldiers, FEES responsibilities/clients rights etc. Deeply concerned, FEES, justice, FEES,
brutal soldiery,FEES etc. Oh and by the way guess who pays for those FEES.

Given the fact that we as a nation spent a lot of dosh and went to war in a way that makes the latest bit of bother look very legal, to free the Albanian Kosovars from danger from the Serbs what the hell are we doing letting any of these low life types claim asylum in the UK. Kosovar Albanian fine, spending lots of cash making you safe in your country therefore no Asylum.
 
#17
I was there at the time same town, different block)...the incident went round like wildfire, and that particular unit had a cowboy reputation and a very difficult CO. BUT - VCPs are VCPs, illegal weapons are illegal weapons, and the UCK were murdering evil bastards....much as the Serbs also were. Making a mistake on an op, unless you clearly breach LOAC should not land you in court. This whole thing is a national disgrace. I suspect the elastic is wearing thinner by the day. Unfortunately we're such a small profession and so ingrained in loyalty it'll be hard to make a political impact.
 
#18
Why is it always the paras who shoot people up unnecessarily? Other regiments go on the same operations and manage to do so without incidents like Bloody Sunday, these two jokers in Pristina and the taxi driver taking the pregnant woman to hospital in Kabul in 2002 (who got shot by 2 PARA because he was using a torch during a curfew).

My theory is that other regiments are more disciplined when faced with similar situations. On peace support operations, where hearts and minds are key (just ask the spams) the Paras give us a bad name as an Army.

And before any paras try to say that it is all about aggression etc etc and hats aren't up to the job, just remember Iraq last year when 7 Armd Bde were getting stuck in to some serious OBUA and hand-to-hand fighting and proving that the rest of the infantry can turn it WHEN IT IS REQUIRED (while 1 & 3 PARA where picking up the brass in the desert).

Touch paper lit......stand back.......
 
#19
Why is it always the paras who shoot people up unnecessarily? Other regiments go on the same operations and manage to do so without incidents like Bloody Sunday, these two jokers in Pristina and the taxi driver taking the pregnant woman to hospital in Kabul in 2002 (who got shot by 2 PARA because he was using a torch during a curfew).

My theory is that other regiments are more disciplined when faced with similar situations. On peace support operations, where hearts and minds are key (just ask the spams) the Paras give us a bad name as an Army.

And before any paras try to say that it is all about aggression etc etc and hats aren't up to the job, just remember Iraq last year when 7 Armd Bde were getting stuck in to some serious OBUA and hand-to-hand fighting and proving that the rest of the infantry can turn it WHEN IT IS REQUIRED (while 1 & 3 PARA where picking up the brass in the desert).

Touch paper lit......stand back.......
 
#20
Not being privvy to the facts that some people obviously are, I was thinking the following: If the 6 RMP soldiers that were killed in Basra had opened fire on their assailants and shot several Iraqi's on their way out, would they to be hauled up in front of a judge to answer the case of excessive force. In our profession, we would hope not but with this case sticking a needle into ROE's (assuming they were applied as taught), are we now entering a phase that all ROE are so restrictive that a soldier cannot act a he has been trained to do. I.E. To close with and destroy the enemy, in concert with other arms, in all enviroments in all conditions (Or thereabouts!).

We accept that we do not have a James Bond esque liscence to kill, but we are soldiers and thus should be supported in our actions. Should it not be a military matter? Should the soldiers involved in the original case have been tried by a military court as we are subjec to Military Law. If not then does this not make a mockery of QR's? We do what we are asked to do by our Military and political leaders. We live times that others would say are best forgotten. And Yet we seem to be treated as if we are a plumber or electrician or other civvy profession answering a case of poor workmanship.


I find it remarkable that all the population, media members and political leaders go on about being pro Military and that we are a warrior nation. Yet few have the balls to actually accept the consequences of using us when they do unleash the "Dogs of War".

:evil: :evil: :evil: :D :evil: :evil: :evil:
 

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