Yes, another bloody petition.....handguns this time

Tony 'farmer' Martin
I somehow wasn't too surprised seeing his name.

But he might be.
It'll never happen, so I've signed it anyway. I see CAPTAIN KILL has too. How encouraging.
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to take the war to criminals by permitting law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns.

Yeah that's real smart... legalise guns, create an even bigger problem than there already is and have the police retaliate by routinely arming all police officers.

Not being funny, but I'm quite happy with us not being like America. 10,000 people die every year in the US because of gun crime. You may think that's a bit ghey but you won't say that if in years to come you see your kids/friends/family being "shot up on the block." :pissed:
And Mr I.N Mysights has signed it as well.

I'm glad people are taking it seriously.
Bad idea... and if it does ever happen, gun associated crime would get out of hand. What we need is tougher policing.
Terrrible idea I'm afraid. As much as I would love to go around double-tapping some of scum who now infest our country, a proliferation of hand-guns would ulimately just see to it that they were all armed too.....

In any case, can you really see that happening in a million years...even if it were to receive overwhelming public support? Not a chance.
Considering that law abiding citizens had their guns taken off them becuase of one lunatic (and his terrible actions) and his masonic link, it will make so much sense to arm the counry.

Imagine its after July 1st and smoking is now banned in pubs

Yes officer I blew his head off becuase he smoked in the pub and I objected to it.....
Seems like a good idea to me. Self defence was removed as "good reason" years ago because, it was argued, that our Police could protect us. They clearly can't so why not adopt the US system. It has worked over there.
jimmys_best_mate said:
Unlike now where handguns are illegal and we live in a paradise country with no gun crime what so ever?

True, there is already a problem. However, only around 70 people a year die due to gun crime in this country. Compare that to a country like the US, where gun ownership is allowed, around 10,000 people die a year.
Bad idea... and if it does ever happen, gun associated crime would get out of hand.
Well as my nephew was shot and murdered 2 years ago by someone, because he happened to be wearing same top as the intended victim, i would like the right to bear arms, so when his murderer gets out in the next decade im going to kill him :threaten:
-=TheGeneral=- said:
True, there is already a problem. However, only around 70 people a year die due to gun crime in this country. Compare that to a country like the US, where gun ownership is allowed, around 10,000 people die a year.
What about Switzerland, France or Germany where there's apparently a lot of gun ownership?
feck off i'm not signing it.

Ok i will do if spiffy promises to blow his brains out, shouldn't take more than a blow of the nose ;-)
People who mention Switzerland and Canada as being countries with low gun crime and high ownership forget, we arent these countries, we have a socially disfunctional country, where increased gun ownership would be a bad idea.

Gun ownership isnt bad in itself, its the social fabric that binds a country together thats more important, and our social fabric is a little tattered, like the US but unlike Canada, which is why increased gun ownership in the UK would lead to all sorts of problems.....

I try to imagine being in the place that you are now. If everyone who wasn't allowed a gun now was. I could imagine a very chaotic period where people get used to having them and the responsibility that comes with it. I think its simply the society behind the ownership.

Anyway, here is an excerpt from an interesting article about this:

Is Gun Ownership Correlated with Violent Deaths?

In 1993 a Swiss professor, Martin Killias, published a study of 18 countries concerning gun ownership, homicide and suicide. He in part concluded there was a weak correlation between total homicide and gun ownership. For a partial criticism of his study see Dunblane Misled where using the countries studied by Killias, these researchers found a much stronger correlation between firearm homicides and car ownership. More seriously, when the United States was included in the Killias study, a stronger correlation between total homicide and gun ownership was found. When two countries were excluded, the U.S. (high gun ownership, high murder rate) and Northern Ireland (low gun ownership, high murder rate) the correlation was marginally significant. Gary Kleck writes, "Contrary to his claim that 'the overall correlation is not contingent upon a few countries with extreme scores on the dependent and independent variable', reanalysis of the data reveals that if one excludes only the United States from the sample there is no significant association between gun ownership and the total homicide rate." (Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, p 253. Walter de Gruyter, Inc. New York, 1997.) Kleck concludes that "the homicide-guns study was not international at all, but merely reflected the unique status of the United States as a high-gun ownership/high-violence nation...Since the positive association Killias observed was entirely dependent on the U.S. case, where self-defense is a common reason for gun ownership, this supports the conclusion that the association was attributable to the impact of the homicide rates on gun levels."

Using homicide and suicide data from a larger sample of countries, 35, (International Journal of Epidemiology 1998:27:216), Kleck found "no significant (at the 5% level) association between gun ownership levels and the total homicide rate in the largest sample of nations available to study this topic. (Associations with the total suicide rate were even weaker.)" (Targeting Guns, p 254.)

A more recent study, by Killias, concludes "no significant correlations with toal suicide or homicide rates were found, leaving open the question of possible substitution effects."

This article by Rutgers University professor Dr. Goertzel offers sound advice regarding statistical analysis: "When presented with an econometric model, consumers should insist on evidence that it can predict trends in data other than the data used to create it. Models that fail this test are junk science, no matter how complex the analysis."

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