Yediot Ahronot: IDF is no longer such a great army

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by KGB_resident, Aug 13, 2006.

?
  1. lost

    21.7%
  2. is losing

    7.6%
  3. is neither winner nor loser

    37.0%
  4. is winning

    7.6%
  5. won

    6.5%
  6. It is too early to judge

    19.6%

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  1. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3290590,00.html

     
  2. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    The article reads like incoherent rambling rather than constructed journalistic prose. Is this a translation into English? I think the author's contention that the IDF's junior ranks have won their wars despite their generals ignores the very real commandership (sic?) of Moshe Dayan and Yitzak Rabin.
     
  3. The IDF has not fought a war like this since their Lebanon days and the problems the IDF ran into may have reflected that inexperience. Their politicians lack of focus on which strategy to pursue probably didnt help. The IDF has encountered tactics that they havent trained for, primarily the wide use of ATM's against infantry hunkered down in buildings.
     
  4. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    Sergey, sorry to butt into a serious thread but your signature just made me laugh out loud...

    'Ugly women do not exist, it just means you've not drunk enough Vodka'

    LOL...as I don't drink I guess I have an excuse for being choosy

    (P.S. is it new??)
     
  5. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    Now a comment on the article. It seems honest and no doubt a perspective. I enjoyed reading it. Despite his ashkanasim name and Israeli indoctrination (which he himself admits to having progressed from), I detect an Arab inside trying to break out. I'm betting Yemen or maybe the Maghrib.
     
  6.  
  7. Does this really work? Is the idea that you launch one in onto the position on Friday early evening, they all queue up keen for some beer tokens for the weekend and you shoot them whilst they search around their numerous pockets for their credit cards?

    These Arabs are certainly ingenious.
     
  8. While I'm not ready to say the Israelis lost, I'll say that this campaign revealed many weaknesses in their defense establishment--going from problems of funding, training, and equipment, to political and social issues of willingness to win, and means used to gain the victory. Excellent article from Ha'aretz on this subject:


    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749564.html

    Israel certainly has some evaluating and soul-searching to do.
     
  9. It is a well-known Russian saying with meaning: after sufficient quantity of vodka all women become at least handsome.

    Back to the theme. I haven't voted myself (not to distort the common picture because I don't belong to the British military).

    The question is a very hard indeed.

    This war is at least a moral victory of Hezbollah. They demonstrated courage, effective tactics, proved that IDF could be defeated.

    But as for the strictly military aspect then Israel is able to win and in fact is winning (however the cost would be high).

    But from political, diplomatical point of view, position of Hezbollah is much better and in this sense they are winning. Now it is possible that Israel could even give up Shebaa Farms.

    But this cease-fire is probably stubborn. So a month of fierce fightings is likely only the first stage. What would be a result of other stages? Who knows? So maybe it is too early to judge?
     
  10. http://www.ithl.org.il/author_info.asp?id=134

     
  11. diplomat

    diplomat War Hero Book Reviewer

    The IDF is just the best 'arab' army in the region, but with better kit. Nothing more. Having spent some time in West Bank and Gaza, their general COIN tactics are very patchy and mostly consist of scared 18 - 20 year old conscripts sitting in bunkers as targets. Obviously Shin Bet and Mossad etc are more than highly competent, but this is a minority.

    Can't comment on their effectiveness on what they are doing now, you would have to ask Hez for that perspective!
     
  12. Nehustan

    Nehustan On ROPs

    Well there's a suprise I imagined someone in their 30s. I don't know why It was just the image I had in my head...
     
  13. Of course its a loss for Israel, they patently didnt achieve any of their explicitly stated objectives, namely the return of their soldiers and the destruction of Hezbollah.

    Also who honestly thought they would lose over 30 Merkava tanks?

    Will heavy armour become obsolete?
     
  14. Taz if you got the figure of 30 merkavas from Hezb or similar source take a pinch of salt with it. They may have possibly hit 30 armoured vehicles and some of these may of only been mobility kills. Frankly, their AT threat was highly lethal.

    I agree, the non-return of the 2 soldiers is a lack of achievement, but as far as Hezb goes, total eradication was never a possibility. Where Hezb get kudos is by declaring victory in arab world (rather like Sadat in '73 - if you go to a Egyptian military museum they class '73 as a victory). Rhetoric does not always equate to the truth or a proper view of the actual facts.

    I dont think heavy armour will become obsolete any time soon, so long as conventional manouvuerist type wars are still possible.
     
  15. From Strategy Page;