Yank medics

#1
I hear Yank medics are much better trained than their British counterparts. Something about more money and more opportunity to see gunshot wounds in civilian hospitals. True?
 
#3
Which US Medics are you talking about - 68W, IDC, 4X, 18D or any of the many other Medical MOS in the United States Military?

Also, which UK Medics are you talking about - MA, CMT, RAF, SF?
 
#4
The only thing that is true, is that fools like you will continue to make idiotic posts on these forums, go boil your head and make some stupid soup!!
 
#6
julietbravo said:
I hear Yank medics are much better trained than their British counterparts. Something about more money and more opportunity to see gunshot wounds in civilian hospitals. True?
US medics are trained differently to UK medics - not better trained. Yes the Yanks have more money to throw around and have nice new kit, but their experience at gunshot wounds is no better than British medics.

Remember, we (the British) have learned a lot about gunshot wounds, penetrating wounds from IEDs etc... from 30yrs of the 'troubles' in NI, and lets also mention Gulf War 1, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. Seeing someone shot in a gang related matter or robbery (with lots of doctors etc around you) is different to having ++casualties from flying debrie after an IED. Even our American counterparts will agree with that. You can't compare the two. :roll:

British medics (as well as most arms in the military) may not have the best kit it the world, but they are better at improvising with what they've got. Yanks are crap at improvision by comparision. :wink:
 
#9
Lesleycape said:
julietbravo said:
I hear Yank medics are much better trained than their British counterparts. Something about more money and more opportunity to see gunshot wounds in civilian hospitals. True?
US medics are trained differently to UK medics - not better trained. Yes the Yanks have more money to throw around and have nice new kit, but their experience at gunshot wounds is no better than British medics.

Remember, we (the British) have learned a lot about gunshot wounds, penetrating wounds from IEDs etc... from 30yrs of the 'troubles' in NI, and lets also mention Gulf War 1, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. Seeing someone shot in a gang related matter or robbery (with lots of doctors etc around you) is different to having ++casualties from flying debrie after an IED. Even our American counterparts will agree with that. You can't compare the two. :roll:

British medics (as well as most arms in the military) may not have the best kit it the world, but they are better at improvising with what they've got. Yanks are crap at improvision by comparision. :wink:
You have a few good points Lesleycape; however, as INVICTUS mentions in his post there are differences in the actual MOS of people assigned and trained as medics in the various US Armed forces.

In the US Army the combat medic (MOS 68W) would be the bottom rung of the ladder. The Medic assigned to Infantry units, etc. The top of the ladder would be the Special Forces Medical Sgt. (MOS 18D) the most highly trained medic in the US Army. My understanding is that US NAVY CORPSMAN assigned as Medic’s to the USMC are also highly trained as well.

Unless one goes into the various job specialties, training and/or the training requirements, etc. in the various types of 'Medics,' in all the armed forces of both Countries, one can be comparing apples to oranges, etc.

US Army Special Forces Medical Sgt. (18D MOS)

http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=33

US Army Combat Medic

http://www.corpsman.com/history/army-68w-68-whiskey-army-combat-medic/
 
#11
Trip_Wire said:
Lesleycape said:
julietbravo said:
I hear Yank medics are much better trained than their British counterparts. Something about more money and more opportunity to see gunshot wounds in civilian hospitals. True?
US medics are trained differently to UK medics - not better trained. Yes the Yanks have more money to throw around and have nice new kit, but their experience at gunshot wounds is no better than British medics.

Remember, we (the British) have learned a lot about gunshot wounds, penetrating wounds from IEDs etc... from 30yrs of the 'troubles' in NI, and lets also mention Gulf War 1, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq and Afghanistan. Seeing someone shot in a gang related matter or robbery (with lots of doctors etc around you) is different to having ++casualties from flying debrie after an IED. Even our American counterparts will agree with that. You can't compare the two. :roll:

British medics (as well as most arms in the military) may not have the best kit it the world, but they are better at improvising with what they've got. Yanks are crap at improvision by comparision. :wink:
You have a few good points Lesleycape; however, as INVICTUS mentions in his post there are differences in the actual MOS of people assigned and trained as medics in the various US Armed forces.

In the US Army the combat medic (MOS 68W) would be the bottom rung of the ladder. The Medic assigned to Infantry units, etc. The top of the ladder would be the Special Forces Medical Sgt. (MOS 18D) the most highly trained medic in the US Army. My understanding is that US NAVY CORPSMAN assigned as Medic’s to the USMC are also highly trained as well.

Unless one goes into the various job specialties, training and/or the training requirements, etc. in the various types of 'Medics,' in all the armed forces of both Countries, one can be comparing apples to oranges, etc.

US Army Special Forces Medical Sgt. (18D MOS)

http://www.goarmy.com/JobDetail.do?id=33

US Army Combat Medic

http://www.corpsman.com/history/army-68w-68-whiskey-army-combat-medic/
Trip,

I see your point. But medics in general are taught drills. It doesn't matter if you are a paramedic in civvie street or a CMT or a USMC medic. A drill is a drill, whether you are putting in a chest drain or putting a band aid on. The proof of the pudding (or training) depends usually on how well that particular individual can cope with the stress of having a wounded soldier in front of them.

What is the main point of a medic? Well to keep a wounded soldier alive to reach a surgeon. We have the golden hour which is usually kept, even on ops. If you look at the survival rates of both British and American wounded since the war started in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you will notice an improvement. This isn't just down to medics, it is also the evacuation chain to get the wounded soldier back to a surgeon.

We are learning and improving our techniques and skills all the time. Yes we are lagging behind the Yanks in many area's, not just medical. But we are getting there. :wink:
 
#12
recall the corpsmen supporting USMC in desert storm amazed that we put in drips using touch,sight and practice and not the beep machine they had(some doppler thing).
we taught them and they gave us all the kit we needed.
most nursing officers and medics asked for attachment to RAMC with N ireland time.
dont think they got it for obvious political reasons.
 
#13
What is the main point of a medic? Well to keep a wounded soldier alive to reach a surgeon. We have the golden hour which is usually kept, even on ops. If you look at the survival rates of both British and American wounded since the war started in Iraq and Afghanistan, then you will notice an improvement. This isn't just down to medics, it is also the evacuation chain to get the wounded soldier back to a surgeon.
Yes, that is the basic task of all medics, especially in conventional units, where a soldier can be air evacuated to a facility with surgeons, etc.

I suggest that you read up on the role of Special Forces medical Sgts in Vietnam and other places where they serve or have served, where conventional medical units are not available and they become the Surgeons as well. In many cases, such as in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia they became the only medical care, for the indigionus people in their AO.

Also take the time to check out the amount of actual overall medical training an SF Medic gets compared to a combat medic. IMHO they are very close to being a PA.

In agree that the speedy evacuation is a large part of the improvements in military medical care as well as in civilian life.

Heres a website that maybe of interest; although many things have been improved in the training listed. No more dogs are used.

http://www.gia-vuc.com/USSFMedics.htm
 
#14
Trip,

Very interesting reading, but Vietnam was nearly 30yrs ago. Medical skills and knowledge have moved on since then.

I'm not doubting that SF medics are very well trained (it doesn't matter if you're a US or UK SF medic), but to get back to the actual question on this thread, I still don't believe that American medics are any better trained than British medics. 8)

They may have 20 different standard of medics from the very basic to the very advanced but they are differently trained - not better trained.
 
#17
Lesleycape said:
Trip,

Very interesting reading, but Vietnam was nearly 30yrs ago. Medical skills and knowledge have moved on since then.

I'm not doubting that SF medics are very well trained (it doesn't matter if you're a US or UK SF medic), but to get back to the actual question on this thread, I still don't believe that American medics are any better trained than British medics. 8)

They may have 20 different standard of medics from the very basic to the very advanced but they are differently trained - not better trained.
Yes, Vietnam was 30 years ago; however, it was a good example of USSF medics, who do the same things around the world today, especially in some South American countries, Afghanistan, the Philippines, SE Asia and many unnamed places around the world, where ODAs are sent.

I agree with you that medical skills, kit and knowledge have improved over the years; however, many basics always remain the same.

I agree with your statement "They may have 20 different standard of medics from the very basic to the very advanced but they are differently trained - not better trained, "100 % as it was the main cause for me to address this thread in the first place.

As for comparisons as outlined in the actual question on this thread, it is pretty hard to make such comparisons without comparing each skill level of medic we are talking about. I would think, each military and/or country have their own standards, skill levels and requirements for each level of being a military Medic.

IMO trying to say that one Countries Medics or Military is better trained or the best, etc. is a waste of time and effort for the most part. To many factors enter into such a discussion that are unrelated like pride in one's country and it's military, etc.

I for one,, would think your Medics are well trained and ready to perform the duties they are trained to do, just as ours are. :wink:
 
#18
does it really matter who is better trained or equiped? Personally, I would be grateful for ANY medaid that would save MY LIFE, REGARDLESS of nationality or wonga!! :x
 
#19
golf-tonto said:
does it really matter who is better trained or equiped? Personally, I would be grateful for ANY medaid that would save MY LIFE, REGARDLESS of nationality or wonga!! :x
I agree with you 100%, having been there and done that! :wink:
 

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