XXX Corps

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by Jacques_Bustard, Oct 21, 2012.

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  1. My son (aged 10) has to do a presentation at school on any topic related to WWII, he's chosen Op Market Garden (good lad) and I'm trying to give him some help. Does anyone know the approx strength of XXX Corps at the opening of this operation. I've checked a couple of books (The Devil's Birthday and Maj Holt's Op Market Garden battlefield guide) plus Google and cannot find the answer. Any help would be much appreciated.
     
  2. Wiki gives it as approx 50000 men at start of Market Garden but otherwise I dont know I'm afraid. Could possibly email Imp War Museum?
     
  3. Hmmm. I don't think you'll find the answer on THIS THREAD HERE, but there are folk who follow it who may well be able to answer. Post the question there.

    Also, see if you can find "Corps Commander", Brian Horrocks auto-biog. That might help you.

    Or (mebbe) the British Official History of the war. It has a number of detailed ORBATs for the formations making up the Brit Army, at different points in the different theatres. Whether it makes any estimate of total numbers at each of those points, I can't remember.

    Other possibilities - Kershaw's German PoV account It Never Rains In September, or Peter Harclerode's account of Market Garden Arnhem - A Tragedy Of Errors

    O - and there was a book published in the 60s titled XXX Corps, which I read, but it is out of print, although it looks - on Amazon - as though it might be available as 'Print On Demand'.


    Good luck
     
  4. When's he got to deliver this epic? I used to have some MP3 recordings of veterans who fought there, recorded on a battlefield tour at Arnhem - if I can find 'em, they include a lot of stuff from the bloke who wrote The Devil's Birthday. Happy to upload to Drop Box or summat similar, if you want/I can find 'em.

    Sadly, I cannot find the one tape I recorded at the bridge itself.
     
  5. I have the Book Corps Commander by Horrocks and the introduction gives an approximate figure of 200000 men during the Battle of the Reichswald. The content of the corps fluctuated as required. A very interesting book and Frankly I think that Horrocks is a very underestimated commander, with Montgomery stealing a lot of the lime light.
     
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  6. Gents thanks for your comments and suggestions. GS I'd checked Wiki and found a page on XXX Corps but couldn't see any numbers, have you got a link? The presentation is for some time next week (no 10 year old ever seems to remember exactly which day). I'd have to say for a 10 year old he's shown a good grasp of the plan and more importantly why it failed.
     
  7. XXX Corps (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia under the market garden section

    "The XXX Corps which consisted of about 50,000 men would advance along the main axis of the British 2 Army's line of the offensive, and pass through Arnhem within 48 hours, and continue into Germany. This was to be the GARDEN part of the operation."
     
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  8. That's a fcuking epic topic (as someone says above), don't these teachers advise students on which topic to pick?

    XXX Corps (United Kingdom) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    useful starting points.

    Not too happy with many f the reports on XXX Corps and their 'failure' to reach Arnhem. You have to read what they actually tried to achieve, and what they did achieve.

    I have a feeling the awesome feat of the British Paras (and Polish) blots out the XXX Corps achievements, and the fact that they were both british units, with one not relieving the other, further condemns XXX Corps.

    Operation Market Garden - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
  9. If its any use to your boy, I have 'by air to battle'(sic) by Charles Macdonald, and 'airborne carpet' Anthony Farrar-Hockley, part of the Ballantine/Purnell/Pan history of WWII.

    PM me if they're any use depending on the timescale, obviously they focus on the airborne element, but are about 150 pages each, and give a reasonable oversight, suitable for a short presentation, with other writings.
     
  10. For balance he should mention that the two SS Panzer Divisions we bumped into unexpectedly were the 9th Hohenstaufen and the 10th Frundsberg. They were on the winning side.
     
  11. 50,000 seems very light to me. An infantry division had a little over 18,000 men, so the 43rd and 50th Divisions had 36,000 between them. Add the strength of Guards Armoured Division, 8th Armoured Brigade, the Prinses Irene Brigade (which was actually just a strong battalion group) and two attached armoured regiments and you're already well over 50,000, yet we haven't even considered at least nine (possibly more) artillery regiments, corps armoured car regiment, an attached brigade from 52nd Division, Belgian artillery and armoured cars and a shedload of corps troops of all different flavours.
     
  12. Ah, XXX Corps the premier British Armored formation, present at Tobruk, El Alamein, Tunisia, Sicily, Normandy, Market Garden, and the Ardennes

    Commanded by the legendary Ed Fox ;)
    A BRIDGE TOO FAR - 1977 clip 1 - YouTube
     
  13. Second SS Panzer Corps - wiki thingy -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/II_SS_Panzer_Corps. IIRC British Intelligence had been told were in the area but disregarded the information.
     
  14. Dutch Resistance passed it back, but for balance, the DR was riddled with German Agents and double agents (Double Dutch Agents?) it was discarded.

    The Y service of the Royal Signals (Sig Int chaps) also reported a 'known fist' (morse keyer) that had been tracked FROM N Africa, but because most of the Panzer units were NOT using their radios, the connection to how many Germans could be in the area was not made.