WWII AFV regimental ID

I'm working on the Alecto self-propelled enigma gun, and its being a right tricky sod to nail down. However, this photograph is kicking around, and raises some questions.


Div symbol appears to be the 7th Armoured (square in the centre) The Arm of Service mark to its right is that of the Junior field arty regiment. However, I can only find two field arty regiments listed as part of the 7th AD's order of battle. These are the 3rd and 5th, and would then get 42 and 43 AoS.

Of course that assumes the Div symbol is that of the 7th. Equally we have a square to the left that is unidentifiable, could this be the Div symbol, if so what's going on in the centre?

Anyone able to lob a shred of enlightenment in my direction?
Thanks.

Edit:
higher resolution image:

But not by much.
 
Div Armoured Car Regiment, I would think - 44 on cobalt blue over green, rather than red over blue. They were originally corps armoured car regiments and had the white horizontal bar signifying corps troops, but they were brought back into the armoured divisions on an informal basis in late 1944 and that was then formalised after the war, so lost the white bar. That also looks like a column of Daimler armoured cars coming down the road behind them. There was an ARSSEr here in the past who described his post-war armoured car regiment in Libya having a regimental Gun Troop equipped with Alecto.
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Div Armoured Car Regiment, I would think - 44 on cobalt blue over green, rather than red over blue. They were originally corps armoured car regiments and had the white horizontal bar signifying corps troops, but they were brought back into the armoured divisions on an informal basis in late 1944 and that was then formalised after the war, so lost the white bar. That also looks like a column of Daimler armoured cars coming down the road behind them. There was an ARSSEr here in the past who described his post-war armoured car regiment in Libya having a regimental Gun Troop equipped with Alecto.
Sounds akin to Inns of Court becoming 11 Armd Div armoured car regiment, allowing 15/19H to move from divisional recce to an extra tank regiment.
 
44 is the AoS for an Infantry not Armoured Div?

Is the picture Berlin, Hamburg?
 
Sounds akin to Inns of Court becoming 11 Armd Div armoured car regiment, allowing 15/19H to move from divisional recce to an extra tank regiment.
Yes indeed. It was done semi-formally from roughly late July 1944 onwards. 2 HCR went from VIII Corps to Guards Armd Div, Inns of Court went from I Corps to 11th Armd Div, 11th Hussars went from XXX Corps to 7th Armd Div and the Manitoba Dragoons went from II Canadian Corps to 4th Canadian Armd Div. 1st (Royal) Dragoons stayed as XII Corps Recce and the 1st Polish Armd Div never got an armoured car regiment permanently assigned.
 

exspy

LE
Equally we have a square to the left that is unidentifiable...
I'm guessing it's a late-war variation of the bridge classification sign. Rather than being a yellow disc, a yellow circle with the serial painted in black or yellow was sometimes used to maintain the camouflage. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dan.
 
Last edited:
I'm working on the Alecto self-propelled enigma gun, and its being a right tricky sod to nail down. However, this photograph is kicking around, and raises some questions.


Div symbol appears to be the 7th Armoured (square in the centre) The Arm of Service mark to its right is that of the Junior field arty regiment. However, I can only find two field arty regiments listed as part of the 7th AD's order of battle. These are the 3rd and 5th, and would then get 42 and 43 AoS.

Of course that assumes the Div symbol is that of the 7th. Equally we have a square to the left that is unidentifiable, could this be the Div symbol, if so what's going on in the centre?

Anyone able to lob a shred of enlightenment in my direction?
Thanks.

Edit:
higher resolution image:

But not by much.
Ugly beast
 
The only armoured car regiment I know of to have used Alectos was 2HCR/RHG from just after VE Day. In the end they were used less the 95mm as APCs.
 
I'm guessing it's a late-war variation of the bridge classification sign. Rather than being a yellow disc a yellow circle with the serial painted in black or yellow was sometimes used to maintain the camouflage. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Dan.
I think the bridging disc is visible to the left of that left-hand square - I'm seeing a '9'.
 
Div Armoured Car Regiment, I would think - 44 on cobalt blue over green, rather than red over blue. They were originally corps armoured car regiments and had the white horizontal bar signifying corps troops, but they were brought back into the armoured divisions on an informal basis in late 1944 and that was then formalised after the war, so lost the white bar. That also looks like a column of Daimler armoured cars coming down the road behind them. There was an ARSSEr here in the past who described his post-war armoured car regiment in Libya having a regimental Gun Troop equipped with Alecto.
Thanks. The lack of white bar was what was throwing me. I've seen the other arrse thread on it as well.

Is the picture Berlin, Hamburg?
Berlin, June 1945 by all accounts.

I'm guessing it's a late-war variation of the bridge classification sign. Rather than being a yellow disc a yellow circle with the serial painted in black or yellow was sometimes used to maintain the camouflage. Just a thought.
Bridge classification is further left.

Ugly beast
Heathen, you obviously have no taste.

The only armoured car regiment I know of to have used Alectos was 2HCR/RHG from just after VE Day. In the end they were used less the 95mm as APCs.
Sorry got to ask, do you have a source for that?
 

exspy

LE
11th Hussars went from XXX Corps to 7th Armd Div...
I think the bridging disc is visible to the left of that left-hand square - I'm seeing a '9'.
Good spot with the disc. Could the unidentified square have something to do with the 11th Hussars then? A regimental identification? Anyone have a copy of their history?

Cheers,
Dan.
 
Good spot with the disc. Could the unidentified square have something to do with the 11th Hussars then? A regimental identification?

Cheers,
Dan.
Yeah, I was thinking that it might be some sort of unofficial regimental thing. But is it me, or does it look like an Airborne Pegasus sign?
 
So, what formations would have been in Berlin in June 1945?
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
Ah, I remember now - it was Benghazi Bandit. Not seen him here for a long time.
He is still an active member of the 15/19H Facebook group (I'm an admin, he was Bays but had a good 15/19H friend and is an all round good egg) and various others.
 
I'm working on the Alecto self-propelled enigma gun, and its being a right tricky sod to nail down. However, this photograph is kicking around, and raises some questions.


Div symbol appears to be the 7th Armoured (square in the centre) The Arm of Service mark to its right is that of the Junior field arty regiment. However, I can only find two field arty regiments listed as part of the 7th AD's order of battle. These are the 3rd and 5th, and would then get 42 and 43 AoS.

Of course that assumes the Div symbol is that of the 7th. Equally we have a square to the left that is unidentifiable, could this be the Div symbol, if so what's going on in the centre?

Anyone able to lob a shred of enlightenment in my direction?
Thanks.

Edit:
higher resolution image:

But not by much.
Not sure if you need any of these publications, but the IWM have some manuals relating to the Alecto. Scroll down the page a bit and they have a few listed. Not able to view them but you might be able to buy them?


I also found this image on line which proports to be 11th Hussars. The formation/Div signs look quite close to the ones in your pic.
61296693_1975981649177711_2544871807685492736_n.jpg
 
I also found this image on line which proports to be 11th Hussars. The formation/Div signs look quite close to the ones in your pic.
4 Armoured Brigade Group.
 

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