WWI German tunnel found.

For some of us, they fought our grandfathers that's reason enough to not only care but to hope that the Germans and French do the right thing.
Feel free to chip some cash
 

slick

LE
As to the tunnel in question I have so many mixed feelings about the situation. The chap who revealed it should`ve kept schtum, he must`ve known that looters would target it. If he had any respect for the fallen then he would have kept plugging away at official channels instead of letting his ego get the better of him. There is more than a sniff of "Look at me, look what I`ve found ! " about this.
Also the sheer amount of fallen inside the tunnel, that is their resting place, they have comrades with them. I feel a better conclusion would be to robustly seal any entrances and put a substantial memorial park in place, which is so distinct that any potential looters will be noticed before they get close to the area.
As to historical interest of artifacts, then that must always come a rather poor second to the respect necessary when dealing with the fallen of any nation.
 
May I refer you to AfghanAndys post no 61?
That the krauts dont care? Then its not Frances problem.
The Germans weren't there by invitation, they trashed parts of France and killed lots of French people.
 

Bubbles_Barker

LE
Book Reviewer
I think in the WW1 era the Europeans had a different "war deaths" culture to us Brits. They very much had the historical heritage of huge armies, high casualties, and the resulting bodies disposed of in mass graves. The Soviets did the same in WW2, usually without even bothering to record the identities of the casualties or even the location of the grave pits.

The British, on the other hand, post-Waterloo, experienced much smaller casualties in expeditionary and colonial conflicts, and had long tradition of interring military dead with due ceremony as normal individual burials in the hundreds of safe consecrated cemeteries in Imperial cantonments and churchyards. The effort put into CWGC and the US equivalent seem to be unique to the Anglo-Saxon tradition.
Anglo-Saxon tradition.

Difficult for the Huns, as the historical aggressors, to push anything here and the treatment of the dead has much to do with the post conflict attitude of those who survive.

Britain is lucky to have recent generations that have mostly venerated the casualties of conflict but.....’last night another soldier’ would show a different story in the 70s and 80s.

I think, and hope, the German comments are an accident in translation but remember, the Nivelle Offensive wasn’t a big plus for the Frogs so perhaps they don’t want to be reminded either.

Overall? I think there should be a combined op to open the tunnel, record the contents for posterity and then reinter the poor buggers who died there, marked as an official war grave, maintained on French soil, funded by Germany.

I don’t think they should exhumed, or repatriated.

I didn’t know about the details of the Chemin des Dames until this thread so I’m grateful to have learnt something about that part of WW1.
 
Anglo-Saxon tradition.

Difficult for the Huns, as the historical aggressors, to push anything here and the treatment of the dead has much to do with the post conflict attitude of those who survive.

Britain is lucky to have recent generations that have mostly venerated the casualties of conflict but.....’last night another soldier’ would show a different story in the 70s and 80s.

I think, and hope, the German comments are an accident in translation but remember, the Nivelle Offensive wasn’t a big plus for the Frogs so perhaps they don’t want to be reminded either.

Overall? I think there should be a combined op to open the tunnel, record the contents for posterity and then reinter the poor buggers who died there, marked as an official war grave, maintained on French soil, funded by Germany.

I don’t think they should exhumed, or repatriated.

I didn’t know about the details of the Chemin des Dames until this thread so I’m grateful to have learnt something about that part of WW1.
The Nivelle/Chemin des Dames offensive was the disaster too far for the French Army, leading to the mutinies. Morale was high before the battle commenced, with Nivelle and his supporters assuring everybody that the lessons of Verdun had been absorbed, and that clever artillery plans would have the poilus steam rollering the Boche.
The British element of the offensive was to be the battle of Arras, and indeed this led to some early successes which gave credence to Nivelle's claims. On the first day of Arras the Canadians took Vimy Ridge, which the French had been unable to do throughout 1915 and 1916. Unfortunately when the French attacked in their sector a few days later they were repulsed with dreadful casualties, and after all the high hopes had been dashed, morale collapsed.
The village near this Winterberg tunnel is /was Craonne, and this name became the title of a melancholy soldiers' song, La Chanson de Craonne
 
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Why are the Frogs getting the blame? Its not their soldiers, let the boxheads come up with a suggestion and let them pay for it.

And Malinowski sounds like great bloke when he's not using mechanical diggers to dig up battlefields,

Pierre Malinowski, at 34 years old a maverick ex-soldier who once worked for Jean-Marie Le Pen
Its their land for one.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Let's not leave it there, where were the great outraged public after Blair sent us to Iraq? Oh that's right they voted the **** back in.

You think they would really care about 100 year old dead bodies?
You assume everybody voted for the lying piece of scum Blair.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
That the krauts dont care? Then its not Frances problem.
The Germans weren't there by invitation, they trashed parts of France and killed lots of French people.
Some of the French assisted the Germans to murder other Frenchmen and women. Round ups into Drancy and re-settlement in the east comes to mind.
 
Some of the French assisted the Germans to murder other Frenchmen and women. Round ups into Drancy and re-settlement in the east comes to mind.
In WW1?
 
If they start a fund I'll chuck in a tenner.
They deserve a memorial and service of some kind.

You going to do the same?
Will I ****, whats a bunch of dead boxheads to me? You going to also cough up for any dead argies/iraqis/North Koreans who bodies are found in the countries they invaded?
 
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Its their land for one.
So? Germans invade France, get killed and 100 years later the French are responsible because the Germans can't be arsed looking after their dead?
 
dont-feed-troll.jpg
 
FWIW, I personally think, the remains should be recovered, buried in an appropriate war cemetery. The archeology done & then re sealed/destroyed etc & leave it to the French to decide what to do with whwts left.
 
Sadly once the night hawks find a location worth digging on the site will be trashed. It's not as if its a small insignificant place, we are talking of a similar situation to the discovery of the mass grave at Pheasant Wood on the Somme.
The French/Germans are stuck with having to do something significant, they can't just cement the entrance and hope it all goes away - it won't!
 
FWIW, I personally think, the remains should be recovered, buried in an appropriate war cemetery. The archeology done & then re sealed/destroyed etc & leave it to the French to decide what to do with whwts left.
Agreed. But the cost will be phenomenal, a new cemetery and the survey will bankrupt poor old Macron!
 
Agreed. But the cost will be phenomenal, a new cemetery and the survey will bankrupt poor old Macron!
I thinkithas been mentioned previously but money can always be found for all manner of other things. The german government IMHO owe a duty to these men who their predecessors sent to war to treat their remains with due respect.
 

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