WW2 without the US??

Discussion in 'Military History and Militaria' started by boredcivvy, Feb 11, 2009.

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  1. Which are on someone else's forum and which have already been discussed here.
  2. A lot less films?
  3. WW2 without the US? Like '39-41 you mean?
  4. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    No interesting ideas just what if's

    Points to note (I'll be brief there are better qualified on here than me)

    As per usual everyone thinks that nothing could be achieved without the Yanks

    The yanks didn't give us anything it was all bought and paid for
    We also supplied equipment to the USSR
    Alot of the war winning US kit was built to British design and specifaction
    The Mustang and Sherman all came out of work carried out for the British to their requirments
    The best allied tank of the war was the T 34/76 made in the USSR

    We had a strong Navy and RAF and we were making gains on land in the middle east
    Sure we had set backs but so did everyone else
    The Navy were getting on top of the U Boat
    Us and the Germans were the most technoligically advanced nations on the earth
    We gave the US jet engines etc
    Germany was no closer to bulding a bomb than us our scientists were in New Mexico with Oppenhiemer
    We would still have carried out night bombing and the Lancaster carried double the load of a B17 so we could still inflict a lot of damage

    We probably would have lost out to the Japenese but once Germany was beat us and the USSR would have turned on them

    We maybe wouldn't have won and probably there wouldn't have bee no second front but the image of us starving and the US saving us from speaking German is a crock of sh1t

    If the US had sat out the war they wouldn't have been a super power
    They wouldn't have got their hands on the Germans that put them into space for a start all that would have gone to us and the USSR

    Remember The US never declared war on Germany - Hitler declared war on them
    Ford and GM continued building vehicles in German factories throughout the war and sued the allies for damages after we bombed their factories

    Don't mean this to be a Yank bashing thread but this notion nothing could be acheived without them is annoying
  5. TBS, thought provoking but what about boots on the ground :?
  6. What would wartime London have been like without the G.Is? This odd cove Crisp has an unusual take on the greatest generation:
  7. I think it would have drawn to a stalemate with Germany holding the ground they had taken.

    Stalin was pushing for a second front to be opened. Hitler was holding out so that he could sue for peace with Stalin. Churchill was reluctant to undertake D Day in 1944 feeling that more preperation was required and knowing that the Atom bomb was coming on line could save many allied lives. Without the yanks D-day would not have happened. The Italians would have kept us occupied on another front, the Japs would have been well embedded and threatening our southern hemisphere allies and as we all know they would have never given up during convential warfare.

    Can't we just call it a good team effort.
  8. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    You can't win a war without boots on the ground as we are proving today
    My point is we weren't finished or starving waiting for the U.S. to save us

    The key for me is the Japanese
    If the Japanese don't attack Pearl Harbor and then across Singapore etc then we have more men available from overseas garrisons
    It's unlikely that the Italians would have had a pop again in the western desert
    Our Navy was strong and the RAF where attacking Germany every night
    Hitler once he failed to finish the USSR was always done for
    The question is where would the USSR stop?
    I suspect at some point Hitler would have had to have made peace overtones to the UK and Europe in order to gather his Army to face Stalin

    Remember Churchill was a fan of neither Stalin or Hitler would he have accepted a chance to occupy parts of Europe whilst the USSR and Germany destroyed each other

    Alot of people in Germany where hoping we and the U,.S. would join Germany to atack Russia

    Yes we probably would have needed loans and equipment but as I said the whole key to it is the Japanese either way the Germans couldn't fight on two fronts plus the Desert etc

    Another question is had Hitler and the Nazi's not been so anti semitic would the brains who worked on the Manhatten project have stayed in Germany
    Oppenheimer was a U.S. born citizen but educated in Germany under some of there leading physic proffessors
    IIRC it was a couple of Brits who first split the atom so we may have got the bomb first
  9. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Maybe the same amount of films - just in Russian and Kremlin approved material only....
  10. Alsacien

    Alsacien LE Moderator

    Germany could not have contained USSR in the longer term - for sure you would be ordering a Guiness in Russian at its place of manufacture...
  11. Ivan would have had to cross the Channel for that. From what I've read they were even less prepared to do that than Germany were.

    I think that we would eventually have won the war without the US. That's assuming Japan didn't get involved of course - although their involvement practically guarantees US involvement.
  12. A history Professor at my last Uni always stated that anyone who thinks that Britain would have still won WW2 if the US had not joined are just quite simply incorrect and are blurred by their national pride and percieved long term capabilities and resources of the Armed Forces at that time.
  13. As usual, not mentioned is Britain’s ‘backhand’, largely being the task of the SOE. Whatever Britain’s capability in table-top war, we foresaw and believed in the collapse of the German occupation in occupied territories. This could come about in several ways or any combination of them. German overstretch, decline of will and morale, anarchy, insurrection, usurpation. The table-top element would largely be provided by the Sovies in the East, and Britain made contingencies to exploit/support German collapse/overthrow in Western Europe, and then reinforce and expand any bridgehead wherever and whenever it occurred. Would be a longer war, but should be less costly to us?

    However, when Sam was bankrolling the enterprise, they insisted on table-top as the fastest and most efficient way to conclude matters – also, of course, inevitably the most costly.