WW2 Medal Order for Court Mounting.

#1
Hi Fellow Arrsers,
As the time is approaching fast for this years Remembrance services, I am in the position to get my late Grand Fathers WW2 Medals Re-ribboned and Court Mounted.
The quandry is the internet is good for pictures and places to get them mounted but i am unable to get the right mounting sequence etc.

The medals are as follows :

War Medal 39 to 45
Defence Medal
France & Germany Star
Italy Star
Burma Star
Africa Star
1939 to 45 Star

Your help in arranging the right order would be much appreciated.

Devil :twisted:
 
#2
This might help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_campaign_medals

"During World War II (1939–1945) the following were issued (with authorised Clasp or Emblem (if awarded) in brackets) - the first ten are listed in the authorised Order of Wearing..."

So, assuming Wikipedia is correct (stranger things have happened), your order is:

39-45 Star
Africa
Burma
Italy
France/Germany
Defence Medal
War Medal
 
#3
They can't all be worn at once. There is a maximum number of stars allowed (three if I remember correctly). Other campaigns are denoted be bars on the stars worn.
 
#4
#5
War Medal 39 to 45
Defence Medal
France & Germany Star
Italy Star
Burma Star
Africa Star
1939 to 45 Star

Hmmm...that is a suspiciously large number of campaign stars; but five stars was the maximum you could have been awarded. Bit like a Travel lodge :)

The possibilities of sub-combinations are not impossible at all though curious and rare. Africa and Burma - seen those. Seen Italy and Burma together too. However Africa, Burma, Italy and France & Germany together? You would need Thomas Cook's best brains to organise the travel between theatres to get that chestful legitimately!


What service/regiment was the grandfather in?? I'm not saying it isn't kosher but if it is, it is definitely an unusual group indeed.
 
#6
Dragstrip said:
Tartan_Terrier said:
They can't all be worn at once. There is a maximum number of stars allowed (three if I remember correctly). Other campaigns are denoted be bars on the stars worn.
What's this then:

http://www.museumofworldwarii.com/Images2005/12MontPhotolge.gif

Are you sure you're not referring to the 1914 and the 1914-15 Stars, which cannot be awarded together?
No, I did mean WWII stars, it just seems that I got the total number allowed wrong.
 
#7
Five stars or five total stars plus bars could be awarded, btw. So a really busy war would have meant a total permissible of seven (if you qualified for 39-45, Defence and War Medals.


If anyone is interested, I keep this sh1tye in my fore-brain to help forget how dull real life is!
 
#8
More than possible. Starts in Africa, qualifies for 39/45 Star, Africa Star, Defence Medal and War Medal, then serves in Italy. Takes part in D Day or thereafter and then is sent out to the Far East as many were towards the latter part of 1945.

Unusual but possible.
 
#9
Cuddles said:
Five stars or five total stars plus bars could be awarded, btw. So a really busy war would have meant a total permissible of seven (if you qualified for 39-45, Defence and War Medals.


If anyone is interested, I keep this sh1tye in my fore-brain to help forget how dull real life is!
Actually I think you will find the figure 5 only relates to the stars. There are documented groups containing five stars plus other clasps, making a total of seven issued.

MM
 
#10
MittMayo said:
More than possible. Starts in Africa, qualifies for 39/45 Star, Africa Star, Defence Medal and War Medal, then serves in Italy. Takes part in D Day or thereafter and then is sent out to the Far East as many were towards the latter part of 1945.

Unusual but possible.
Agreed. I used to know a lovely old boy (sadly no longer with us) who served with the Cheshire's whose war service was exactly as you described above MittMayo. He arrived in Burma for the last weeks of hostilities - however I don't think he was demobbed until the end of 1946.
 
#11
Eight different stars were issued for the Second World War. It was decided that the maximum number of starts that could be earned by any one person was five, while those who qualified for more received a clasp to be sown on the ribband of the appropriate star. Only one clasp per ribband was permitted which was the first to be earned after qualifying for the star. Thus the stars could bear the following clasps:

1. 1939-14 Star - i. Battle of Britain
2. Atlantic Star - ii. Air Crew Europe or iii. France and Germany
3. Air Crew Europe - iv. Atlantic or iii. France and Germany
4. Africa Star - v. North Africa 1942-43, vi. 8th Army or vii. 1st Army
5. Pacific Star - viii. Burma
6. Burma Star - xv. Pacific
7. Italy Star - None
8. France and Germany Star - x. Atlantic

The ribbands are believed to has been designed by King George VI personally and have symbolic significance in each case.

When ribbands are worn, the clasp is usually denoted by a silver rosette, However, the Battle of Britain clasp is represented by a gilt rosette and the 8th Army and 1st Army clasps by small silver numerals.

The Defence Medal awarded for:

1. Three years service at home.
2. One years service in a non-operational area (e.g. India)
3. Six months service overseas in territories subject to air attack or otherwise closely threatend.

Personnel of AA Command, RAF ground crews, dominion forces stationed in the UK, the Home Guard, Civil Defence, National Fire Service and many other civilians qualified for this award.

The War Medal 1939-45 awarded to:

1. All fulltime personnel of the armed forces wherever they were serving so long as they had served at least 28 days between 3 Sep 39 and 2 Sep 45.
2. A few civilians, such as war correspondents and ferry pilots who whad flown in operational theatres also qualified.
3. No claps were issued, but a bronze oakleaf denoted an MiD.

So if anyone is still awake, the maximum nuber of stars is 5 and they will almost always have the Defence and War Medals too.
 
#12
Thanks for the input so far, having trawled Wiki and a few other sites i think i have nailed it.

Many Thanks

D.
 
#13
MittMayo said:
Cuddles said:
Five stars or five total stars plus bars could be awarded, btw. So a really busy war would have meant a total permissible of seven (if you qualified for 39-45, Defence and War Medals.


If anyone is interested, I keep this sh1tye in my fore-brain to help forget how dull real life is!
Actually I think you will find the figure 5 only relates to the stars. There are documented groups containing five stars plus other clasps, making a total of seven issued.

MM
No, the maximum award of stars and clasps permitted is five. t
This is made clear on the little pamphlet that WW2 medal recipients found in their wee brown cardboard box with their medals and clasps. With one exception, where a sixth can be awarded. I could leave you hanging on this...but the clasp which allowed in addition to the five maximum is the Battle of Britain clasp for the 39-45 Star.
 
#14
I don't have to worry, I'm a member of the "one gong club"!! Can't find that either!!
 
#15
Cuddles said:
MittMayo said:
Cuddles said:
Five stars or five total stars plus bars could be awarded, btw. So a really busy war would have meant a total permissible of seven (if you qualified for 39-45, Defence and War Medals.


If anyone is interested, I keep this sh1tye in my fore-brain to help forget how dull real life is!
Actually I think you will find the figure 5 only relates to the stars. There are documented groups containing five stars plus other clasps, making a total of seven issued.

MM
No, the maximum award of stars and clasps permitted is five. t
This is made clear on the little pamphlet that WW2 medal recipients found in their wee brown cardboard box with their medals and clasps. With one exception, where a sixth can be awarded. I could leave you hanging on this...but the clasp which allowed in addition to the five maximum is the Battle of Britain clasp for the 39-45 Star.
Sorry, you are wrong, many examples of where this is not the case.

The 5 Stars was to save cost, hence the clasps. What you are saying is that someone culd have served in a 'war zone' and received no recognition at all?

MM
 
#16
You can get 5 stars as medals, but no more (as I think we are all agreed) - but it isn't as simple as "1st 5, issue, off to the tailor". You could then get 2 additional clasps (not 3). And, MM, you can dip out on gongs (well, 1 clasp, strictly) - you dip out if you qualified for Atlantic, ACE & F&G - you get one star & one clasp.

MOD Medal Office said:
No more than five Stars may be awarded to one person. Regulations relating to the award of the Pacific, Burma, Atlantic, Air Crew Europe and France and Germany Stars prevent this from happening.

Those who would qualify for more are awarded a Clasp with the title of one of the Stars to which they qualify. This Clasp is then attached to the ribbon of one of the other Stars, as laid out in the regulations.

A candidate may qualify for both the Pacific and Burma Stars but is only awarded one of these, which will be the first Star earned. He will then receive a Clasp with the title of the second Star earned which is worn on the ribbon of the first.

Another candidate may qualify for two or three of the Atlantic, Air Crew Europe and France and Germany Stars. In this instance the first Star earned is awarded. He will then receive a Clasp with the title of the second Star earned to be worn on the ribbon of the first. A third Star or Clasp will not be awarded in this case.

The 1939-45 Star, Africa Star and Italy Star can all be awarded regardless of which other Stars are qualified for.
So, strictly, you could have 3 stars & 2 clasps (39-45, Atlantic + F&G clasp, Pacific + Burma clasp). Dunno how likely that would be, though. I'm sure somebody must have done it.
 
#17
Idrach said:
You can get 5 stars as medals, but no more (as I think we are all agreed) - but it isn't as simple as "1st 5, issue, off to the tailor". You could then get 2 additional clasps (not 3). And, MM, you can dip out on gongs (well, 1 clasp, strictly) - you dip out if you qualified for Atlantic, ACE & F&G - you get one star & one clasp.

MOD Medal Office said:
No more than five Stars may be awarded to one person. Regulations relating to the award of the Pacific, Burma, Atlantic, Air Crew Europe and France and Germany Stars prevent this from happening.

Those who would qualify for more are awarded a Clasp with the title of one of the Stars to which they qualify. This Clasp is then attached to the ribbon of one of the other Stars, as laid out in the regulations.

A candidate may qualify for both the Pacific and Burma Stars but is only awarded one of these, which will be the first Star earned. He will then receive a Clasp with the title of the second Star earned which is worn on the ribbon of the first.

Another candidate may qualify for two or three of the Atlantic, Air Crew Europe and France and Germany Stars. In this instance the first Star earned is awarded. He will then receive a Clasp with the title of the second Star earned to be worn on the ribbon of the first. A third Star or Clasp will not be awarded in this case.

The 1939-45 Star, Africa Star and Italy Star can all be awarded regardless of which other Stars are qualified for.
So, strictly, you could have 3 stars & 2 clasps (39-45, Atlantic + F&G clasp, Pacific + Burma clasp). Dunno how likely that would be, though. I'm sure somebody must have done it.
Thanks Idrach. Therefore, strictly speaking there was no specific limit on the number of Stars which could be awarded, but the limitations on particular combinations of Stars make it impossible in practice for any individual to be awarded more than five.
 
#18
And do not confuse stars with the medals. It is perfectly possible for someone to have 5 stars, plus some clasps and then the Defence and War medals, all worn together correctly.
 
#19
Tiger-Monkey2 said:
And do not confuse stars with the medals. It is perfectly possible for someone to have 5 stars, plus some clasps and then the Defence and War medals, all worn together correctly.
I said that earlier when I referred to a maximum group of seven! Incidentally some emblems other than BOB existed which were not quantity limited - The Africa Star could be worn with a silver 8 or 1 indicating which of 1st or 8th Army one served with.

As Idrach says MM, you could have "qualified" for ACE, Atlantic and F&G but would only have received the first one of ACE and Atlantic qualified for as star, then the F&G as bar. The ACE and Atlantic could not be awarded together. If you see a group containing these together, then it will be hokey.

I believe I read somewhere that the limit on stars was a cost thing. Which if you imagine the numbers of qualifying personnel makes some sense. If you are a bean-counter...The analogy to this somewhat tightwad approach was the intention to provide bars for the War Medal 1914-1920 - which was then abandoned as an initiative. The Army never published its listing of possible clasps. The Navy however had some 40 odd clasps - the qualification rules making those for WW2 campaign stars look like a walk in the park! No clasps were in fact issued...
 
#20
I have my late Great-Uncle's medal set, still in its little brown OHMS box but sadly without the leaflet mentioned. He has '39-'45 Star, Atlantic Star, Africa Star & War Medal.

Interesting thing is that in the box was also a strip of '39-'45 Star ribbon sewn to tunic material which has a rosette on it. Great Uncle was a rating in the RN so I'm confused what the rosette is for as that's supposed to denote Battle of Britain...
 
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