WW2 Army records

#1
Hi the Int Corps, I have posted this on the Mil history board and AGC board without any luck. Perhaps some one here may know where to glean the info below from? The VA and MOD are no help.
---------------

Perhaps best to try and illustrate these lists? X..Y..& R the latter two not involved in the quest apart from Y see end..

X list...this was to account for personnel who became temporaroily non effective overseas. the list I have seems to be incomplete? One notation is the X/8b list... OR's who as ex POW or ex internees rejoin the command.

So am trying to establish the following entries.

SOS of unit TOS of RA X(II) wef 14 5 44. Q. what is this list?
SOS of X(II)b TOS of unit wef...what was he struck off & the b... behind it now?
SOS of unit & TOS X (II)b list once again.

Next entry poted to the X(V) list..Q what is this X(V) list
None of these X marks appear on my sheet of what who when etc the gaps may hold the answer?

To finish ....posted to the Y list.... but does not give a number after it for eg. Y/4 all returned POW from DOArrival UK. The use of Roman numerals on the X list and then changed to the normal figures later is understandable?

So hopefully someone may know where these lists or archives may be? The sheet I got was from the RA museum in Woolwich years ago.
 

Glad_its_all_over

ADC
Book Reviewer
#3
Nah, it's defeated me, but then I was a linguist. Any pure AN(SI) around?
 
#4
:scratch: :pissedoff:
 
#5
Well that's more of a response than I've had so far.Read ...---... (SOS) if that's the right way round as it was flags & bugle when I was in & if cracked it'll be a bottle of the dearest UK taxed cider for the guy/gal who can help:))
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#7
It's difficult to work out what the question is but the answer is almost certainly the National Archives at Kew who have all the WW2 war diaries.
 
#8
fluter said:
Hi the Int Corps, I have posted this on the Mil history board and AGC board without any luck. Perhaps some one here may know where to glean the info below from? The VA and MOD are no help.
---------------

Perhaps best to try and illustrate these lists? X..Y..& R the latter two not involved in the quest apart from Y see end..

X list...this was to account for personnel who became temporaroily non effective overseas. the list I have seems to be incomplete? One notation is the X/8b list... OR's who as ex POW or ex internees rejoin the command.

So am trying to establish the following entries.

SOS of unit TOS of RA X(II) wef 14 5 44. Q. what is this list?
SOS of X(II)b TOS of unit wef...what was he struck off & the b... behind it now?
SOS of unit & TOS X (II)b list once again.

Next entry poted to the X(V) list..Q what is this X(V) list
None of these X marks appear on my sheet of what who when etc the gaps may hold the answer?

To finish ....posted to the Y list.... but does not give a number after it for eg. Y/4 all returned POW from DOArrival UK. The use of Roman numerals on the X list and then changed to the normal figures later is understandable?

So hopefully someone may know where these lists or archives may be? The sheet I got was from the RA museum in Woolwich years ago.
Hello fluter,

Just had a quick look at your dit and have the following remarks, aplogies if I'm being obtuse;

- My understanding is that the Y-list, historically, would refer to a soldier being on long term sick and posted to the Y-list, we have a lot of that in the Int Corps......

As you note RA suggests Royal Artillery so perhaps approach their association/museum or alternatively the Imperial War museum.

Are you positive X is a list, X may refer to British X Corps or in the context of the Royal Artilery may indicate X Battery (II) Regt.....

Don't know if that helps
 
#9
Excuse me jumping into this forum, chaps...

You may get better results if you repost in the Arty or Mil History Forums with an image of the document you want to translate.

While you may understand what you've written, it doesn't make an awful lot of sense to the rest of us (apparently).

Now, while the Y list relates to medical discharge and I'd guess the R list would be discharge to Reserve Service and even the Z list would make sense (related to compulsory continuation of conscripted service after cessation of hostilities or something like that), I'll take your word for it that X relates to what you said.

Could it indicate that the person in question went missing during battle X(II) , found his way back to his unit TOS unit explaining that he had been a prisoner X(II)b but had escaped, then went missing again but was known to have been captured X(II)b. The Red Cross advised that he was injured and entitled to repatriation X(V). On repatriation or liberation he was put on the list for possible medical discharge Y and on formal examination his injuries gave him a Y/4 classification entitling him to injury-based pension on discharge.

It's all guesswork, but the date more or less ties in with Cassino, so there's a few more trails you can follow.


If I've understood the question, that is.
 
#10
Well so far working out the abbs on the replies such as WAH has proved difficult fo me, I can only guess What A Hope on the reply above yours.

See if I can simplify it further. The records of soldiers then and probably now will have these lists showing the movements of each individual. On the lists I have X....there are various numbers but the ones I need as per sods law are not on it.

So again back to the lists posted above I am trying to establish what went on when he was SOS & TOS etc. The VA obviously has access to any records in Kew but they refused to enlighten me on these...in other words they don't know.

This is all in relation to my Mother 92 & a possible payment under the scheme they initiated. It has taken years to get nowhere with them...SOP of course ask the Gulf W Syndrome fellows!

It is a serious attempt to establish thet her Husband was a POW. Just to highlight the offhand approach of this org her Brother was a Jap POW and beheaded by them.....turned down the claim due to being on a Jap cruiser when the ships company was murdered ,as not really under the spirit of the initiative....camp only!

Now if WAH is some other code then let me know. I am hoping someone might just know where the Army has the info on shelves still.

Sorry if that appears strong but it is not believe me, as it took x10 years to sort out their medals...another story of cushy jobs procured in the AMO Droitwich wanting to be left alone and draw pay without assistance being offered etc.

So two bottles of cider offered:))) I'm in the BFPO 30 area so restricted in any attempts to get to Kew due to my Mother being incapacitated etc. Please wipe the tears from the glass eye and assist if at all possible.

Cheers Neil.
 
#11
Y List can also apply to individuals who are posted to a role outside the Army / MoD, such as Defence Attache support staff anf 49 Para.

Not sure about X list, but a bit of googling indicates that it may be associated to postings to Units in Armies of other Commonwealth nations?
 
#12
If you only want to esablish whether he was a POW and the dates involved, then contact the Red Cross. Being a Swiss organisation, you can guarantee that they'll have easily accessible records.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/archives

Contact details: http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/html/contact-archives-290506

ICRC Archives contact details
Address, telephone numbers, e-mail address, opening hours, research procedures.


©ICRC/v-p-hu-n-00021-19
Hungary 1956-1957. Budapest. Child relief.
Hungary 1956-1957. Budapest. Child relief. ©ICRC/v-p-hu-n-00021-19
Most archive documents are written in English or French, the two working languages of the ICRC.

The public reading room is open from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., Monday to Friday.

Readers/researchers are asked to notify the Archives Division in advance (by e-mail, telephone or letter) that they intend to visit. When they arrive at the ICRC, they should report to the reception desk, where they will be placed in the hands of an archivist after showing proof of their identity and being issued a visitor's pass. Before the first visit they will not be asked to complete any formalities.

ICRC archivists can on request carry out short searches of up to half a working day. Searches are subject to an hourly charge of 80 Swiss francs (around 60 US dollars or 55 Euro).

Photocopies cost 0.50 Swiss francs per page.

Address:
ICRC
19, avenue de la Paix
CH – 1202 Geneva

Tel. : (++ 41) 022 730 29 66 / 022 730 29 43
e-mail [not given]
Request form: http://www.icrc.org/eng/contact-cid

No, use this one instead: http://www.icrc.org/eng/contact-archives
 

cpunk

LE
Moderator
#13
If you want to establish that he was a POW, a list of WW2 POWs was compiled after the war and eventually published (by the IWM I think). A good library should be able to get it for you through the inter-library loan scheme.

The records at Kew from WW2 are almost all open for public inspection now: if you have this individual's details - service no., rank, DOB etc - you will be able to access a lot of information about him, including his POW records.
 
#14
As per happens in many cases he never spoke a word about his service, with all the records I have I know everything about him on paper EG: no VD etc:)))

On his sheets there is this gap and next to it reported on by....WO. when I went to a tribunal I was informed that meant a Sergeant Major....well if so there would have neen a name...WO is War Office & if the case that means something serious happened IMO.

I had gleaned from an older Cousin that before they were captured they buried their watches money etc.....he managed to get back to his own lines eventually, this was in Burma. So of course he was not probably logged by the Red X.

Again the VA state he NEVER served in Burma....his medal group allowed has the Burma star, on his medical records on discharge, places of service France India Burma. I also asked the VA if they could confirm if any members of the 6th or 8th Med Battery RA were on this list they have paid out on. they refused to confirm.

The Y list I mentioned he was shipped back to the UK on a hospital ship. The RA museum when at Woolwich has scant info on these two Regt's & as not an "orficer".... wouldn't have been recorded in any case.

So that's about the full picture, hoping again that "any in" can ask around where the lists can be found or apply officially etc?
 
#16
8th Medium & 6th Medium Regt RA the two must have been side by side also mentioned is 245th Med. Bty which would be a sub unit of one of them the 1st by the looks of the sheets?

thanks for picking that up as already written this is positive place to be hopefully by some of the replies?
 
#17
fluter said:
8th Medium & 6th Medium Regt RA the two must have been side by side also mentioned is 245th Med. Bty which would be a sub unit of one of them the 1st by the looks of the sheets?

thanks for picking that up as already written this is positive place to be hopefully by some of the replies?
fluter

Just got this off the raa

6 Med Regt
Reg

Delhi, India 1939-40
Iraq 1941 - 10 Indian Div (bty)
India 1940-3 23 Indian Div & 15 Indian Corps
Burma 1943-5 - 15 Indian Corps Troops
ALFSEA 1945 - 34 Corps Troops, 59 AGRA
18 Med Regt


8 Med Regt
WF
F India 10/41
India 1942-3
Burma 1943-5 - 4 & 33 Indian Corps Troops
Disb 2/46

Good luck
 
#18
Thanks, in reverse...I need more than good luck:-((

As I wrote the VA although it is on his sheets, insists he never served in Burma. The key to my contention lies in these lists. On what I do have the "b" after the number always refers to a POW....So without the total list and explanations I cannot get any further forward. see the lists I posted above.

Again if they (VA) had wrote and said no one form these two Medium Regt's have been on the POW list they must have owing to claims, that would have probably made me fold. But as it was "no can give" makes me wonder the same as "Not in Burma" when clearly he was.

Thanks for taking the trouble on this.
 
#19
Hi Fluter,

I assume that the VA have consulted his service record that should be held in the:

Historical Disclosures
Army Personal Centre, MP 555,
Kentigern House, Brown Street,
Glasgow,
G2 8EX

You or your mother as your father's nearest next of kin can request a copy of his service record under the Data Protection Act 1955 (A Subject Access Request). There should be a link from the National Archives' website or you can Google the APC. The request will cost a small amount, but the request forms are all on line.

I am not sure what the various abbreviations stand for - it might take a visit to Kew if you can get someone to do it on your behalf. Certainly if the war diaries are held you can the NA catalogue search on-line and order documents to be sent. This can be a bit hit and miss if the dates on the diaries are not clear. The NA only holds the service records for individuals from before 1923.

Good luck with your search.
 
#20
Yes I have his complete records, as already written they refuse to see he was in Burma although written theron, and it is these abbreviations notated I need to try and confirm what happened.

It happened at the start also his complete AT Battery was captured in France about x6 managed to get back from Dunkirk, he was one of them.

At least i am having a lot of replies so still hoping someone may know:))) Thanks for the reply.
 

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