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WW1 WW2 Cap Badges still in service? Whats the oldest?

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#1
I expect this has been done before but I'm a new bug so here goes.

What cap badges are still in service today that were used in WW1 WW2 and what is the oldest cap badge still going.

My definition is that if you got hold of an old cap badge you could wear it now, provided you are in the right regiment/corps. (Accepting of course that you are not forced to wear an issue staybright job).

I would also accept interesting side discussions on other butttons badges and regimentalia are still going.

For what its worth I offer the Cap Badge of the London Scottish which was introduced in 1908 and is unchaged since then. Purists may argue that it was surplanted by the crusified moose of 51 HIGHLAND between 1967 and 1992 and so does not count, but it continued as the badge of the Pipe Band and Cadets before being reintroduced in 1992 and I wore it illegaly while on attachment to the Royal hong Kong Regiment (The Volunteers) 1983 - 1985.

The London Scottish also has the oldest collar dogs - becasue they invented them. The collar dogs introduced in 1859 are the same as those used today on No 1 Dress.
 
#2
Royal Artillery, from looking at pictures of my Great Grandad during WWI his looks the same as mine. No I don't have a stay bright one.
 
#4
Royal Artillery, from looking at pictures of my Great Grandad during WWI his looks the same as mine. No I don't have a stay bright one.
I Would have thought the only difference would be the change from Kings crown to Queens.
 
#5
Blackcat said:
Royal Artillery, from looking at pictures of my Great Grandad during WWI his looks the same as mine. No I don't have a stay bright one.
I Would have thought the only difference would be the change from Kings crown to Queens.
Tomato Tomarto...
 
#6
Any badge with a crown worn in the WW1/WW2 period will have a "Kings" crown and therefore not be correct for the present day.

How about the Guards for same badges?
 
#7
The King's Own Scottish Borderers have worn basically the same cap badge since 1887 (crown changed from QC to KC then back to QC over the years).

The KOSB are very much a family regiment cap badges being passed on to the next generation etc. I recall several soldiers wearing Victorian cap badges in their glengarrys. This was not only condoned but encouraged and was a source of pride. I'm sure the practice is still extant in the regiment.
 
#10
I managed to get away with wearing a pair of GPR wings (although I would never ever be worthy as those chaps were totally nails in the grand scheme of things) on a rather large parade with Charlie boy some 11 years ago. Main difference is GPR wings are twice the size and have a Kings crown. My excuse was, I was showing respect to our fore fathers, which I was BTW. Apart from the fact I had spent the previous day on the pi55 in the GPR tent with the 'GPR lads' and one old boy thought it would be a 'larf' so we swopped! He told me he remembered the day the 'young whipper snapper Charlie was calved by Betty' and thought he'd be trouble even then! If anyone felt out of place, it was HRH Charlie when he popped into GPR tent for a chat. It was like he'd walked into the NAAFI bar circa 1941!! About 40 70+ yr olds mummering 'cnut' under their breathes!

:lol:
 
#11
Busterdog said:
The King's Own Scottish Borderers have worn basically the same cap badge since 1887 (crown changed from QC to KC then back to QC over the years).

The KOSB are very much a family regiment cap badges being passed on to the next generation etc. I recall several soldiers wearing Victorian cap badges in their glengarrys. This was not only condoned but encouraged and was a source of pride. I'm sure the practice is still extant in the regiment.
Also many of the Scottish Regiment badges did not necessarily have a QC or KC but rather a coronet or no crown at all, and a few of those versions dating into the 1800s at least.
Some of them of course are gone through amalgamations, but existed into the 50's 60's or as in the Gordons, the '90s

I suspect there are a few units of the British army that still have such cap badges, having coronets or no crown at all.
 
#12
Busterdog said:
The King's Own Scottish Borderers have worn basically the same cap badge since 1887 (crown changed from QC to KC then back to QC over the years).
Not the same QC BD

Pre 1901 Queen Victoria’s Crown
1901- 1953 King’s Crown – the Tudor or Imperial Crown
1953 – Queen’s Crown – The St Edward’s Crown.

RCSignals said:
I suspect there are a few units of the British army that still have such cap badges, having coronets or no crown at all.
Badges at 1914 that have no crown and/or have been unaffected by amalgamation are

17th Lancers – ( Now The Queen’s Royal Lancers).
Grenadier Guards.
Coldstream Guards.
Scots Guards.
Irish Guards.
Welsh Guards (Formed 1915).
Royal Scots
The Cheshire Regiment.
The Duke of Wellington’s Regiment.
Oxfordshire and Buckinghamshire Light infantry –(Now The Light Infantry).

As to ‘who wears the oldest badge?’ Depends on your starting point. The formation of territorial regiments in 1881? The introduction of khaki forage caps pre WWI?
The HAC Infantry Company’s winged arm and staff? – As it is the HAC’s crest from their arms it must go back hundreds of years. But then you could say the Royal Cypher as worn by the HCR goes back further.
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#13
RAMC aint far away from the real thing of today, well the WO's couldn't recognize the difference. Apart from me! How I was hated in the Mess at functions! :lol:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
Sorry Maximus_Strides the Ox & Bucks became RGJ so technically the cap badge ceased to exist. The current Light Infantry Badge is very similar to the Light Infantry Brigade badge of the 60s which meant that when the County regts were disbanded all they effectively did was to remove the county shoulder titles. The badge has changed little, the main way to notice is that if one has a solid silver badge all the curves on the ribbon holding the horn are there in full. The staybright badge is slightly styleised (sorry no better phrase) and the detail seems less clear. The Ox & Bucks badge was very soft in comparisom with longer ribbons.




This is the current approved regt cap badge with backing in Stay bright. The top curves used to look more flourished and full and still can be if a silver cap badge is purchased from the regtl Jewellers. I knew a really nice Cpl who sadly died in a diving accident whos section bought one for him whilst we were in a rifle company. I'd have donated if asked he was that kind of guy. RIP John Rann.
This is the O&BLI from the RGJ official site. I have met ex O&BLI at Remembrance in maroon with a green patch without the crown so it may have been for sd caps only. See what I mean about the softer curves and longer ribbons.
 
#15
The Infantry element of HAC wear grenade, different in style or shape from other regiments (Guards/Fusiliers etc) and with HAC in script on the ball.

Artillery element (19th century - 2004) wore RA badge but with 'Arma Pacis Fulcra' motto. Think this would be the same for the WW1 siege batteries and WWII AA as well as RHA regiments.

Remainder went to Company 'short arms' (affectionately known as the 'w@nking spanner') when infantry role ceased c1970, but when doing ceremonial (GoH etc) it is the grenade on caps.

Various badges through the centuries, would be surprised if one was continuous, but the Company's devices and name have changed little for hundreds of years.

I would guess the Coldstream Guards.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#16
Well done Zulu: "I have worn my grandads capbadge from ww2, its RWF"

I hope nobody has ever suggested you shouldn't, at least not after you finished training. Sounds like the correct application of family regimental tradition.

My wife has her Grandfather's Argyle and Sutherlands Highlanders badge and medals from the Great War, the badge could be worn now - I'm not sure when it was introduced.
 
#17
sknn said:
My wife has her Grandfather's Argyle and Sutherlands Highlanders badge and medals from the Great War, the badge could be worn now - I'm not sure when it was introduced.
on amalgamation of the Sutherland Highlanders and Argyllshire Regiment of Foot in 1881.

The thistle wreath is from the Sutherland Highlanders, the centre, which was apparently designed by Princess Louise, was new to the combined Regiment.

Some of the WW1 badges had solid (non-pierced) centres.
 
#18
ugly said:
See what I mean about the softer curves and longer ribbons.
I had much the same thing in the draft Ugly – but it missed the final cut. :oops:

As to the oldest badge still in current use. The Welsh Guards, although only formed in 1915 have the leek as a cap badge. The leek was used by the Welsh soldiers at the Battle of Agincourt – St Crispin’s Day 25 October 1415

Shakespeare’s Henry V, Act IV, Scene 7 refers to it thus:

KING HENRY.
Praised be God, and not our strength, for it!
What is this castle call'd that stands hard by?

MONTJOY.
They call it Agincourt.

KING HENRY.
Then call we this the field of Agincourt,
Fought on the day of Crispin Crispianus.

FLUELLEN.
Your grandfather of famous memory, an't please your
Majesty, and your great-uncle Edward the Plack Prince of
Wales, as I have read in the chronicles, fought a most prave
pattle here in France.

KING HENRY.
They did, Fluellen.

FLUELLEN.
Your Majesty says very true. If your Majesties is rememb'red of
it, the Welshmen did good service in garden where leeks did grow,
wearing leeks in their Monmouth caps; which, your Majesty know,
to this hour is an honourable badge of the service; and I do
believe your Majesty takes no scorn to wear the leek upon Saint
Tavy's day
.
Any advance on 590 years :?:
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
Maximusstridus wrote: As to the oldest badge still in current use. The Welsh Guards, although only formed in 1915 have the leek as a cap badge. The leek was used by the Welsh soldiers at the Battle of Agincourt – St Crispin’s Day 25 October 1415
Ah yes but this was a sex aid used in battle for the first time surely? Perhaps the Sheep Sh*ggers were caught short, something the bard ommitted to save his sponsors embarressment
Will Shakespeare sponsored by the Welsh Army as we havent enough vowels to make our own poetry


Sorry couldn't resist it. A big lad done it & ran away sir!
 
#20
ugly said:
Maximusstridus wrote:

Will Shakespeare sponsored by the Welsh Army as we havent enough vowels to make our own poetry

Sorry couldn't resist it. A big lad done it & ran away sir!
7 vowels in Welsh.
 

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