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WW1 death

#1
Hi all,I'm after some info.My great uncle Gunner H Spurr 162759 served in the Royal Garrison Artillery,9th mountain brigade.They were in India in WW1.He was killed 20/11/1918.So how come he is buried in the CWWG cem in Ramleh Israel?
 
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#2
He wasn't killed, he died, that implies a non-action death. Given the date I'd guess at Spanish flu. 9 Mountain Brigade had been in Palestine for at least a year by then.
 

_Chimurenga_

LE
Gallery Guru
#3
It should be 9th Mountain Battery, not brigade.
 
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Fang_Farrier

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
If you look around at the various CWG sites and in local cemeteries you will often see gravestones with dates post 111118.
Just as some war memorials are dated to 1914-1919, remember that it was merely an armistice that was signed in 1918, the official end of the war only came in 1919 with the signing of the treaty of Versailles.
 
#5
Gnr Howard SPURR was entitled to a WWI pair-that is, a British War Medal and Victory Medal. The WWI Medal Rolls show that he was Royal Garrison Artillery and the given unit as 'Base Detachments', which is a catch-all phrase for administrative reasons.
 

AfghanAndy

On ROPS
On ROPs
#6
He wasn't killed, he died, that implies a non-action death. Given the date I'd guess at Spanish flu. 9 Mountain Brigade had been in Palestine for at least a year by then.
Or wounds received or any other number of reasons why soldiers die from non enemy action.
 

AfghanAndy

On ROPS
On ROPs
#7
If you look around at the various CWG sites and in local cemeteries you will often see gravestones with dates post 111118.
Just as some war memorials are dated to 1914-1919, remember that it was merely an armistice that was signed in 1918, the official end of the war only came in 1919 with the signing of the treaty of Versailles.
Excuse my ignorance, but I thought it was 1919 as we still had troops in action supporting the White Russians.

I stand by to be corrected though.
 
#8
Excuse my ignorance, but I thought it was 1919 as we still had troops in action supporting the White Russians.

I stand by to be corrected though.
The British Victory Medal (VM) for WWI has the dates '1914-1919' on the reverse: both it and the British War Medal (BWM) were established in 1919. The criteria for both was later amended to include the Russian Civil War campaigns and actions up to and including 10 Aug 1920.
 

AfghanAndy

On ROPS
On ROPs
#9
The British Victory Medal (VM) for WWI has the dates '1914-1919' on the reverse: both it and the British War Medal (BWM) were established in 1919. The criteria for both was later amended to include the Russian Civil War campaigns and actions up to and including 10 Aug 1920.
Many thanks.
 
#10
If you look around at the various CWG sites and in local cemeteries you will often see gravestones with dates post 111118.
Just as some war memorials are dated to 1914-1919, remember that it was merely an armistice that was signed in 1918, the official end of the war only came in 1919 with the signing of the treaty of Versailles.
I'm not so sure that Versailles was a factor as regards war graves.
For inclusion in a war grave and to qualify for a WW1 headstone, the CWGC criteria ran to 31st August 1921. Most of the latter burials would have been those who died of wounds contracted during the war.

For many war memorials, 1919 was included because one or more of the people commemorated, succumbed after the armistice. Certainly was the case with my local memorial.
 
#11
I remember walking into a cemetery in Chester-le-Street Co. Durham and seeing two CWG graves IIRC one dating from just after the end of the war, the other from before.
Obviously succumbed to something while in the UK.
 
#12
Or wounds received or any other number of reasons why soldiers die from non enemy action.
Died of wounds usually says so. Died is generally disease, or occasionally an accident but they usually get a comment in the CWGC entry. I agree we can't be absolutely certain but, given the date, flu is the most likely cause.
 
#13
... the official end of the war only came in 1919 with the signing of the treaty of Versailles.
Officially the war didn't end until Parliament passed an act to say it had ended. WW1 officially ended on 31 August 1921.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32421/page/6371

So soldiers who died fighting in Ireland in 1921 for instance get a CWGC headstone. Rather unfairly an RIC man who may have died fighting beside him isn't entitled to one.
 
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#14
Died of wounds usually says so. Died is generally disease, or occasionally an accident but they usually get a comment in the CWGC entry. I agree we can't be absolutely certain but, given the date, flu is the most likely cause.
The policy of the CWGC is to not specify how people died. If you get hold of the publication Soldiers Died in the Great War the entry for each person gives a lot of information including basic cause of death - KIA, DOW, or Died.


Officers are in a separate publication from the enlisted personnel and oddly provides less information
 
#15
It should be 9th Mountain Battery, not brigade.

Gunner Spurr, H
Service Number 162759
Died 20/11/1918
Aged 20
H.Q. 9th Mountain Bde.
Royal Garrison Artillery
Son of William Henry and Elizabeth Jane Spurr, of 47, Pendarves St., Tuckingmill, Camborne, Cornwall.

The brigade was formed in India as the 2.75" Mountain Brigade with A & B Batteries of those equipments. It went to Palestine where it picked up 12 Mountain Battery equipped with 3.7" pack howitzers. 9 Mountain Battery stayed in India.
 
#16
Died of wounds usually says so. Died is generally disease, or occasionally an accident but they usually get a comment in the CWGC entry. I agree we can't be absolutely certain but, given the date, flu is the most likely cause.
My great uncle who served in the Australian Imperial Force in WW1, Died of wounds received, but not until the early 20s.
 
#17
Gnr Howard SPURR was entitled to a WWI pair-that is, a British War Medal and Victory Medal. The WWI Medal Rolls show that he was Royal Garrison Artillery and the given unit as 'Base Detachments', which is a catch-all phrase for administrative reasons.
I can remember my Gran used to have his 2 medals and his "death penny".But dunno where they ended up.He was a HQ bod.
 

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