WuFlu - Anti Vaxxers

[Sam The Bam]

IIRC I read a while back that there were a number of MP's who were tested positive for covid-19 as is the case here in the US where a fair few members of Congress have it.

I was thinking that now would be a good time for them to lead their respective countries by example. The infected could be given the vaccine and see if it helps any or if it kills them, the healthy get the vaccine and we the public wait and see if there are any side effects say after six months or so.

 

[Sam The Bam]

A bit like his shit operating system.

Well he is somewhat of an expert on viruses as he's been dealing with them since Windows 95.

 

[Bob65]

It's really a pretty simple numbers game.

X=Probability you catch a serious case of Covid
Y=Probability you get serious side effects from vaccine

It's almost certainly the case that X is much bigger than Y. So take the vaccine.

How do you know that given that the vast majority of "cases" of COVID are asymptomatic, and the side effects of the vaccine are as yet unknown? See the link I posted in which the AstraZeneca executive is talking about side-effects in 4 years time. Also bear in mind that everyone who wants you to take the vaccine benefits from it - executives getting richer, politicians saving face for their mismanagement of the situation. They don't care about you.

Here's what will swing me to pro-vaccine: all politicians/scientists get it first, with some oversight to ensure they actually are getting the same thing that us plebs will get. And the companies that make it accepting full liability for any side effects. Not much to ask I don't think.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

Sticking ‘currently’ in there seems fair to me. Compulsory vaccination seems unlikely, however should, in the future, circumstances arise when certain people absolutely must be vaccinated, it’s there in print and the MSM won’t be crowing about ‘U-Turns’ per usual.

(snip)

That's my point. It does suggest that some would like to have the option in their back pocket, even if they don't choose to use it.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

I’m quite clear that you’re not worrying. I suspect that you’re a Farage cultist trying to stoke fear and uncertainty.

I'm sure you do. You probably receive orders from Alpha Centuri via your bridgework too.

 

[ThelmatheBelmer]

If you had said that Johnson’s a liar and you can’t trust anything he says, the we wouldn’t have had this discussion, as I would have agreed with you. However, you stated that it was a matter of semantics, and there were no semantical tricks in Johnson’s statement. Your argument centres around his untrustworthiness, not semantics.

It's not just him you're being asked to trust though, is it?

It's the whole support and information structure holding it up. If that gets it wrong, the whole system is imbalanced.

 

[Themanwho]

I dipped my toe in to this thread much earlier but it was all getting a bit tinfoily, so I left you to it. Looking at the poll, just over 30% of those who responded won't be taking any vaccine; can I ask why? Is it because you think it's a government mind control drug? A commie trick? Big pharma making a bid for world domination? Is it the next step on from Fluoride in the water to destroy our masculine urges? Or are you all just fcuking stupid scared of needles?

At the moment a lot of people are sounding like African extremists saying that vaccines are killing them and it's all a plot by evil whitey.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

I dipped my toe in to this thread much earlier but it was all getting a bit tinfoily, so I left you to it. Looking at the poll, just over 30% of those who responded won't be taking any vaccine; can I ask why? Is it because you think it's a government mind control drug? A commie trick? Big pharma making a bid for world domination? Is it the next step on from Fluoride in the water to destroy our masculine urges? Or are you all just fcuking stupid scared of needles?

At the moment a lot of people are sounding like African extremists saying that vaccines are killing them and it's all a plot by evil whitey.

It's more a reflection of a complete collapse in trust in our politicians and in large sections of the Establishment. In the post-war period they've consistently demonstrated a willingness to say or do whatever they think they need to say or do to get a policy over the line or themselves off the hook and we've even been mired in an extended conflict on the basis of a big fat fib.

Everyone's now pretty cynical and society's less deferential and likes to pull the Government's tail, which is probably no bad thing. Ultimately though, I'm willing to bet that most people will agree that Big Pharma isn't trying to kill everyone and will fall into line over vaccination, though the World Government/Lizard Men/Illuminati may have to ban 'I am Legend' until the vaccination programme's completed.

 

[Themanwho]

It's more a reflection of a complete collapse in trust in our politicians and in large sections of the Establishment. In the post-war period they've consistently demonstrated a willingness to say or do whatever they think they need to say or do to get a policy over the line or themselves off the hook and we've even been mired in an extended conflict on the basis of a big fat fib.

Everyone's now pretty cynical and society's less deferential and likes to pull the Government's tail, which is probably no bad thing. Ultimately though, I'm willing to bet that most people will agree that Big Pharma isn't trying to kill everyone and will fall into line over vaccination, though the World Government/Lizard Men/Illuminati may have to ban 'I am Legend' until the vaccination programme's completed.

But do you honestly believe that the vaccines being prepared for use are anything other than the best effort to provide a prevention to catching Covid?

 

[Nimbus]

But do you honestly believe that the vaccines being prepared for use are anything other than the best effort to provide a prevention to catching Covid?

... even as you type, the Lizard People are closing in...

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

But do you honestly believe that the vaccines being prepared for use are anything other than the best effort to provide a prevention to catching Covid?

It's certainly a best effort but it's also a best effort that's taken place under the most intense pressure imaginable and the human factor element will be considerable. The time normally taken over development and testing is actually part of the safety protocols.

The flip side is that those involved are very bright people and I know from personal experience with fuel certification that development and testing systems can be massively over-cautious. Then again, fuels are nowhere near as complex as a vaccine.

Do I think it's a best effort? Certainly. Do I think the time pressures have increased the level of risk? Yes. Is that risk sufficient not to be vaccinated? Not in my view. If it ends lockdown and the wholesale destruction of the economy, I'll roll my sleeve up and take my chances on a Zombie Apocalypse.

 

[3ToedSloth]

How do you know that given that the vast majority of "cases" of COVID are asymptomatic, and the side effects of the vaccine are as yet unknown? See the link I posted in which the AstraZeneca executive is talking about side-effects in 4 years time. Also bear in mind that everyone who wants you to take the vaccine benefits from it - executives getting richer, politicians saving face for their mismanagement of the situation. They don't care about you.

Here's what will swing me to pro-vaccine: all politicians/scientists get it first, with some oversight to ensure they actually are getting the same thing that us plebs will get. And the companies that make it accepting full liability for any side effects. Not much to ask I don't think.

That's why I left it for you to fill in the blank variables X and Y. It's a question of estimating the risks with the available information.

X: What do you think is the probability of getting a serious case of Covid?
Y: What do you think is the probability of getting serious side effects from the vaccine?

All the anti-vaxxers reckon that Y is the one to worry about, because apparently only the extremely elderly die from Covid and the vaccine has been rushed. This fear doesn't seem to be backed up by the data.

The numbers already show that quite a lot of younger people get very sick from Covid - I don't want to be unlucky enough to get permanent lung damage. These vaccines haven't just been whipped up in the lab for big-pharma to make a quick buck as you seem to suggest. I've had plenty of vaccines over the years. Off the top of my head - rabies, Japanese encephalitis, DTP, yellow fever, typhoid, hepatitis.....I've had no problems and very few people do. From reading about this vaccine I'm not particularly fearful either. To me the risk is certainly less than bad covid.

p.s. congratulations on getting an Excellent from @mrdude for that post!

 

[Bob65]

But do you honestly believe that the vaccines being prepared for use are anything other than the best effort to provide a prevention to catching Covid?

"Best effort" is not how vaccines or any medication or medical devices are normally developed. In fact "best effort" is pretty much unprecedented. Imagine a restaurant that refused to follow established standards and instead just said it made "best effort" to keep its kitchen clean and its ingredients stored. Or a construction company that ignored regulations and just made a "best effort" on that tower block or bridge. It just doesn't happen.

Then again nothing about COVID is normal, asymptomatic cases and deaths or hospital admissions "with but not of" have never been counted before. It's not a conspiracy theory to make these observations.

As I say above, I've had plenty of vaccinations, I am perfectly comfortable with the idea - I'm an anti-corner-cutter, not an anti-vaxxer, a term I now notice has been expanded to include even people like me!

 

[asmallbrownduck]

It's really a pretty simple numbers game.

X=Probability you catch a serious case of Covid
Y=Probability you get serious side effects from vaccine

It's almost certainly the case that X is much bigger than Y. So take the vaccine.

If X is almost certainly going to be bigger than Y, then why the need to advertise this, even after the drug companies have been absolved from legal liability?

Linky

 

[Fang_Farrier]

"Best effort" is not how vaccines or any medication or medical devices are normally developed. In fact "best effort" is pretty much unprecedented. Imagine a restaurant that refused to follow established standards and instead just said it made "best effort" to keep its kitchen clean and its ingredients stored. Or a construction company that ignored regulations and just made a "best effort" on that tower block or bridge. It just doesn't happen.

Then again nothing about COVID is normal, asymptomatic cases and deaths or hospital admissions "with but not of" have never been counted before. It's not a conspiracy theory to make these observations.

As I say above, I've had plenty of vaccinations, I am perfectly comfortable with the idea - I'm an anti-corner-cutter, not an anti-vaxxer, a term I now notice has been expanded to include even people like me!

Regards to with but not of, there's several conditions which affect the immune system where technically that condition does not kill you, whatever infection you succumb to does.

 

[pc supa]

I dipped my toe in to this thread much earlier but it was all getting a bit tinfoily, so I left you to it. Looking at the poll, just over 30% of those who responded won't be taking any vaccine; can I ask why? Is it because you think it's a government mind control drug? A commie trick? Big pharma making a bid for world domination? Is it the next step on from Fluoride in the water to destroy our masculine urges? Or are you all just fcuking stupid scared of needles?

At the moment a lot of people are sounding like African extremists saying that vaccines are killing them and it's all a plot by evil whitey.

Daft cnuts don't realise they've more chance of choking to death on a chicken bone.

 

[3ToedSloth]

If X is almost certainly going to be bigger than Y, then why the need to advertise this, even after the drug companies have been absolved from legal liability?

View attachment 525022

Linky

You think they shouldn't keep track of any encountered side-effects from a massive vaccination program?

 

[Fang_Farrier]

If X is almost certainly going to be bigger than Y, then why the need to advertise this, even after the drug companies have been absolved from legal liability?

View attachment 525022

Linky

Because as already pointed out, there's a longstanding method of dealing with drug reactions, the yellow card reporting system.
Any new drug results in a spike in reporting as health professionals tend to be over cautious.

For instance, there's a reasonably new local anaesthetic that can allegedly cause a side effect of parathesia, it lasts for days.
Analysis showed that in fact it's rate is no higher than longer established ones.
It just gets reported more as it's newer and now has that reputation.

 

[RTU'd]

What could possibly go wrong with the vaccine.
Just look at Thalomid which was rolled out on the quick.

 

[3ToedSloth]

What could possibly go wrong with the vaccine.
Just look at Thalomid which was rolled out on the quick.

What's the professional opinion of your alter ego @Dr Death ?