wtf - fears of Argy build up for Malvinas

Havent found an online version to link to - as yet - but front page of the Sunday Express leads with --> "Falklands Invasion Alert".

According to the paper (and their un-named top MoD source) the garrison at the islands is being increased to 5,000 amid new fears of an invasion by Argentina. (There have been 'provocative' flights by Argentinina planes within the 'no-fly' zone).

Unsurprisingly the large oil reserves in the area are being cited as the reason behind it all. [Who would have thought it - a war (potentially) being waged about/over oil...?]

Interesting though the write-up is (considering the publication) - surely this cannot be serious?? Cant be much more than a bit of diplomatic sabre-rattling, due to Argentine President being a a bit 'difficult'.

Anyways - thought would share this one. And will post a link if ever find an online version of the story.
No, the reason is that under the new EU constitution the Falklands will be incorporated into Europe in the same manner as French Guyana. It will forever remove the possibility of "recovering" the islands (which Argentina has never owned, bar a couple of months in 1982).

This leaves Argentina with a stark choice, go now, or accept that they'll never have the islands.

"Argentina balks at Falklands in EU

Buenos Aires, Argentina, Apr. 29 (UPI) -- Argentina is lodging a complaint with the European Union about the inclusion of the Falkland Islands in the EU constitution, La Nacion reported Friday.

According to Foreign Minister Rafael Bielsa, Argentina's 25 ambassadors in EU countries are filing complaints with each member country.

The Falkland Islands -- A British territory off the coast of Argentina -- have long been a point of contention between England and the South American nation.

In 1982, the two nations waged a short-lived war over the islands, leaving some 900 people dead, mostly Argentines.

Argentine officials are concerned that if the islands are include in the constitution as a British overseas protectorate, then their ongoing struggle to regain control of them will be waged against the European Union and not just Great Britain. "

- Washington Times, 29 APR 05
Somewhat related article regarding Argy comments/views on the islands.

South Atlantic News Agency
Monday, 02 May

Malvinas in EU Constitution, “unfortunately affect us”

Argentine Defence minister Jose Pampuro said Monday that Argentina “has growing international support” for its Falkland Islands sovereignty claim although admitting that the fact that the archipelago has been included as a British Overseas Territory in the European Constitutional Treaty, “unfortunately affects us”.

Minister J. Pampuro
However Mr. Pampuro pointed out that the Falklands’ issue must be addressed in the diplomatic field even when “it’s not an easy issue” since it’s it involves form, strategy and political decision by the government.

Mr. Pampuro remarks followed a ceremony in the cenotaph of Liberty Building during the commemoration of the 23rd anniversary of the sinking of the cruiser Belgrano during the Falklands’s conflict in 1982.

“Argentine sovereignty over the Islands is supported by many historical facts that confirm it”, underlined Mr. Pampuro.

Argentina last week formally complained to the European Union over the inclusion of the Falkland Islands/Malvinas as a British Overseas Territory in the EU Constitutional Treaty which is currently under a ratification process by the 25 members of the block.

Former president Carlos Menem was also critical of the current Argentine policy towards the Falklands/Malvinas which was synthesized in a line: “Galtieri lost the war and (President) Kirchner is loosing peace”.

Mr. Menem in an official statement said that “in spite of the military defeat of 1982 under the responsibility of de facto government presided by General Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri, Argentina managed to sustain its rights over the Islas Malvinas in the diplomatic field by installing the difference with Great Britain under the so called “sovereignty umbrella”, and claiming the specific characteristics of the decolonization process in the archipelago, in which a new population was implanted by the colonial power following the territorial occupation”

The former Argentine president (1989-1999) further argues that during his administration “we advanced in the search for alternatives to make effective the compliance of the United Nations mandate, which calls for a peaceful and negotiated solution of the dispute between the occupying power, United Kingdom, and Argentina. The EU Constitutional Treaty by including Malvinas among the “Overseas Territories” under tutelage of that regional block ignores the Argentine sovereignty claim”.

Mr. Menem argues the Kirchner administration reaction, and irritation, towards the EU inclusion of the Islands was too late and “what should makes us feel irritated is the negligence of our authorities who seem to have found out of this diplomatic back step which affects Argentine interests and imperils our sovereignty claim over the Malvinas, from newspapers”.
”What should really concern us is the growing and vertiginous international isolation to which this government is leading us with its verbally confrontational and factually debilitating manners”.

In the end lines of his statement the former Argentine president insists that “the foreign policy of President Kirchner is isolating and debilitating Argentina and seriously harming its interests”, and specifically regarding Malvinas, “Galtieri lost the war and Kirchner is loosing peace”.

Foreign Minister Rafael Bielsa yesterday defended the government’s diplomatic work regarding the inclusion of the disputed Malvinas South Atlantic islands as British territory in the European Constitution from accusations made by former president Carlos Menem that the administration’s reaction was “negligent and late.”

“That is not exact, it is a lie,” said Bielsa about Menem.
“I do not want to reply to an old man who, besides, is a former president. I don’t want to sound disrespectful,” added Bielsa.
and a different comment in the same publication:

But the problems lie outside the obvious. One has to analyze the Falklands from 3 dimensions: Argentine, British, and Kelper. Eugenio Diaz-Jausoro, a 28-year-old Argentine lawyer from BA, made the following comparison:
“Of course everyone is British here. But why are they British? Because the Argentines [however few at the time] were expelled and the British were transplanted here to secure the islands. It’s like France kicking out the Argentines from Tierra del Fuego and putting French people there instead. Yes, then of course it becomes French.”

It was an eloquent clarification of Britain’s presence on the Falklands being both artificial and de facto. Argentina will always claim de jure sovereignty and has every right to, historically and geographically. But unfortunately, 170 years is more than the average age of today’s nations. Something went wrong back in the 1830s. But in this day and age, two wrongs do not make a right. The lesson for Argentina, loser of the 1982 war, is now to live and let live, and hopefully to befriend what is ultimately a quaint and affluent remnant of a once massive empire, to which Argentina, as Sir Malcolm Robertson hinted back in 1929, in all but name once belonged.
The Sunday Express is a Tory rag - you'd do much better to ignore it and read 'The Independent' or 'The Guardian' instead for a better-researched and more impartial viewpoint.
^ not that my reading material either matters, or is up for debate but I read a number of publications and the Daily or Sunday Express are not normally amongst them... only bothered to get this one because of that headline.

Anyhow - does seem that any sabre-rattling over the islands is due to the EU constitution (which is the timing behind this) and the potential huge oil reserves are the only real economic incentive.

Still dont think anything will come of it.
The Guardian or The Independant?

Are you stupid?

They are equally partisan and biased; if not more so. The only difference being that they are at the other end of the political spectrum, edited by plastic 'socialists'.

As has been said before you are either a t it, or someone that is having a laugh whilst winding everyone else up.
Or maybe the Argentines now realise that if they did invade we'd only be able to send 'Big Smudger' from the MT who has just come off a biff chit!

Could be a blessing in disguise though - I seem to remember that Maggie was just about to axe a large proportion of the Naval Fleet before the last little altercation. Cue the Falklands 'conflict', result no cuts to the forces and a landslide re-election for the Tories.
A particular example of Groaniad impartiality was their 8-page colour supplement about Robert Mugabe's Socialist Nirvana in Zimbabwe, published at the height of the atrocities and expulsions against the white farmers. Of the 8 pages, only the last paragraph mentioned ANYTHING about this at all.

The Guardian is the British equivalent of Pravda, only less amusing.
Soldier_Why said:
Or maybe the Argentines now realise that if they did invade we'd only be able to send 'Big Smudger' from the MT who has just come off a biff chit!

Could be a blessing in disguise though - I seem to remember that Maggie was just about to axe a large proportion of the Naval Fleet before the last little altercation. Cue the Falklands 'conflict', result no cuts to the forces and a landslide re-election for the Tories.
oh yah big cynic you!

though probably also very right
Am currently on an operation where we work with the Argies! All the Argy maps that they present have the Falkland Islands (FI) (which, unless I am mistaken, is a British Overseas Territory and the population want to remain British) marked as las Islas Malvinas (Arg) (named after 'les Iles Malouines,' the name French seal hunters, who were frequent visitors to the area in the eighteenth century, called the Islands - bloody frog/dago conspiracy! )

The best thing is that someone has scratched las Islas Malvinas (Arg) off and put a sticker saying Falkland Islands (UK) - good work fella!

From Bliar's speech to FI at New Year 2004

But let me assure you that there is no lessening in our commitment to your security, sovereignty or right to self-determination. We have no doubts about our sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and their surrounding maritime areas.

commitment to your security, sovereignty or right to self-determination. We have no doubts about our sovereignty over the Falkland Islands, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands and their surrounding maritime areas.

And this position will not change, unless you, the Islanders, decide otherwise.
Maybe he has got balls after all?? :roll:
Don´t forget the personal wish of many politicians to have their names entered in future history books, preferably as the person who brought some disputed territory "heim ins Reich" (quoting Adolf Hitler, means home into the Empire). The current Chinese government acts the same concerning Taiwan or Russia in the Caucasus region.
German Chancellor Helmut Kohl wanted to go down in the history books as the the man under who´s government Germany got reunified, he wouldn´t accept a transitional period to bring the East German economy to the same standards as the West (because by then he wouldn´t have been chancellor anymore), but insistzed on an immediate reunification, even though it almost bankrupted Germany´s economy (big part of our tax load goes to reunification costs).


Just out of interest is there much East/West tension within Germany?
I understand that a huge amount of money goes East, and unemployment is sky high there.

Was reunification a good idea?
I think this is standard sabre-rattling. I can't see Argentina taking military action without a change in government. Financially ruinous wars on dodgy grounds without international support tend only to be undertaken by the US.
A little bit.
Interestingly results from the Bundeswehr recruitment tests (we still have national service and every young man has to undergo a selection board check (medical / psychological) when he is about 17) show that over the last few years there has been a sharp decline in especially mental capacity among recruits in the East. It looks as if most of the switched on, flexible people are leaving the East in huge droves, looking for jobs e.g. in the West or abroad, while the slackers and yobs stay to cash the dole money.
What I said in the other post is that under the Communist regime, there was very little investment into the East German industry except for show off projects (which had world class standards, like the optical factories of Carl Zeiss Jena). The factories were not allowed to reinvest the profits, if they made some, but all gain had to go back into the state pockets. So there was no real incentive to improve. Also, due to the Communist ideology of having huge plants mainly based on heavy industry, many regions were an industrial monoculture of just one branch.
Many factories still stayed on the technological level of the 1930s and 1950s, so when reunification came, there was no way they could compete with the much more modern Western factories.
Then add the "it must be from the West!" mentality many East Germans had for the first years after reunification. E.g. many Easterners prefered a third hand rustbucket of a car made by a Western brand over a brand new Wartburg with a modern Volkswagen engine at the same price, so forcing their own jobs to disappear.
Interestingly the only sector which proved to be economic is the agrarian sector with the huge cooperative farms. Since they were so big, they could develop industrial farming methods, which made them more efficient than the family type farms in the West.

I think if East Germany had undergone a 10 year transitional period as a seperate economy, it would have greatly helped.
The problem with the Kohl government was that Kohl, facing an election, didn´t want to raise taxes, but took the reunification costs out of the federal pension and social securiy fonds, which caused the big deficit we have today. He also let any East German pensioner join this fonds to get their votes, even though they have never contributed.

MrPVRd said:
Financially ruinous wars on dodgy grounds without international support tend only to be undertaken by the US.
:lol: oh how they laughed.

sad but true. and we seem to have been suckered into this one alongside them.
frenchperson said:
Geographically, I think Argentina have a very good case for sovereignty
Geographically, yes, but we in the UK believe in national self-determination. The people of the Falkland Islands want to be English, therefore they are English - wonder if those in French Guiana want to be French??
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