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Would you trust the Bears smile?

B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#3
KGB_resident said:
Nibbler said:
Just in case we all think that leopards change their spots, this link should provide some food for thought...

Russian Officers' torture tactics

Respect for the guy mentioned, who retained enough sanity to identify these swine despite the conditions he endured...
Sorry, I will comment the article later, my wife is waiting for me for shopping...

You mean you can't say anything at this time as they may be on to you? :wink:
 
#4
Biscuits_AB said:
KGB_resident said:
Nibbler said:
Just in case we all think that leopards change their spots, this link should provide some food for thought...

Russian Officers' torture tactics

Respect for the guy mentioned, who retained enough sanity to identify these swine despite the conditions he endured...
Sorry, I will comment the article later, my wife is waiting for me for shopping...



You mean you can't say anything at this time as they may be on to you? :wink:
No he means that she is an officer and he DAREN'T make her wait while he replies. <gulp>
 
#5
Nibbler said:
Just in case we all think that leopards change their spots, this link should provide some food for thought...

Russian Officers' torture tactics

Respect for the guy mentioned, who retained enough sanity to identify these swine despite the conditions he endured...
Right! Read it! Awful, and I have every respect for the man involved and fervently hope he can achieve some sort of justice.

And your point is?

MsG
 
#6
I think we would all agree that the emergent Russian Federation of states has a lot of catching up to do on many issues including human rights. It is improving however and it will continue to improve as the RF re-establishes itself amongst the rest of the world but almost 80 years of polarisation is hard to eradicate so it will take time.
 
#7
And your point is?
It was essentially an IQ test to distinguish between those who could identify political issues and those who would take a personality based view - you have reinforced my Nietzscheian view of certain stereotypes. However, as you need it spelt out, my point is that just like certain other banana republics where passion and self loathing is confused with morality, one should think long and hard before deciding to do any sort of business with this bunch of venal criminals.

It is improving however and it will continue to improve as the RF re-establishes itself amongst the rest of the world but almost 80 years of polarisation is hard to eradicate so it will take time.
Actually, there's a considerable body of evidence to suggest that the body politic of the Russian Federation is regressing, not improving at all. Chechnya is a case in point...
 
#8
There's more evidence to show that while improving it's economy the RF is prepared to accept Western values in exchange for trading.

Cut off the trading and you hold back change.
 
#9
While I have no problem with deserving types of people - terrorists, sex-offenders, Celtic supporters etc being tortured to a slow and agonising death, torturing civvies likke the PE teacher is both morally wrong and tactically unsound. It acts as a recruiting seargent for terrorists, like the scum who slaughtered the children at Beslan.
 
#10
The article is founded on this case.

Alavdi Sadykov, a 56-year-old former PE teacher, who spent three months in the prison in 2000. Mr Sadykov does not know for sure why he was arrested, or why he was tortured for 83 days or even why he was released...
First of all mr.Sadykov has right to complain to European Court for Human Rights. Has he complained, I don't know. There is no even one word about it in the article. Now, let's apply a common sense. Alleged events happened 6 years ago. Sufficient time inteval to complain.

Those inmates who survived at the October prison had frequently tried to complain about their experiences, but they had been ignored.
Again, they are free to complain to ECHR.

"Alexander knocked me off my feet and then stepped on my leg. He took a large souvenir dagger from his vest, pinched my left ear and cut it off."
Btw, there are many so called teips (clans) in Chechnya. Blood revenge (Vendetta) is a common place and cutting ears was (is) used as a 'warning'. So likely the ear was cut in another place by another 'performer'.

Despite his harrowing ordeal, he remembered and then recorded the names of his tormentors – officers from the Khanty-Mansyisk division of the Russian army.
There is no such a division in Russian army. There is no any army regiment in the city of Hanty-Mansiysk. Probably he speaks about policemen. Special police units (OMON) from Hanty-Mansiysk area were sent to Chechnya. One policeman from city of Nizhnevartovsk is in the jail now for beatings.

I agree, the man was likely detained, beaten. Alas, Russian policemen use to beat detainees and not only in Chechnya (one woman won her case in ERHR and received 35,000 Euro as a compensation). As for the story then it looks as a fairy tale.

Late journalist Anna Plitkovskaya has been mentioned in the article. She wrote about Chechnya. But she had also American citizenship. But Abu-Graib was not so interesting object for her investigations.
 
#11
Late journalist Anna Plitkovskaya has been mentioned in the article. She wrote about Chechnya. But she had also American citizenship. But Abu-Graib was not so interesting object for her investigations.
That's probably because she knew the difference between idiots behaving badly (Abu Ghraib), and state sanctioned systematic torture of opponents (anywhere the Russian Federation and its ex KGB president feels threatened). Spare me the attempts to argue this away: Russia has a long and appalling history of extra-judicial treatment of anyone who disagrees with it: as a case in point, Anna Plitkovskaya may have been partisan in her reporting - but the authorities who ran Abu Graib would not have had her assassinated.

Would you rather be an investigative journalist in today's Russia or Ireland (Guerlain), or today's America? Evil is evil, irrespective of pathetic attempts to claim moral equivalence...
 
#12
There's more evidence to show that while improving it's economy the RF is prepared to accept Western values in exchange for trading
No there isn't -there's evidence to show that the RF is prepared to pretend to accept Western values if it lines the pockets of various individuals... There's no evidence whatsoever to show that they 'accept' Western values: type Anna Plitkovskaya, Chechnya, Ukrainian election, NATO expansion, Khordovsky or Grosny into Google to confirm this...
 
#13
Nibbler said:
Late journalist Anna Plitkovskaya has been mentioned in the article. She wrote about Chechnya. But she had also American citizenship. But Abu-Graib was not so interesting object for her investigations.
That's probably because she knew the difference between idiots behaving badly (Abu Ghraib), and state sanctioned systematic torture...
...in secret CIA jails?

Nibbler said:
Spare me the attempts to argue this away: Russia has a long and appalling history of extra-judicial treatment of anyone who disagrees with it: as a case in point, Anna Plitkovskaya may have been partisan in her reporting - but the authorities who ran Abu Graib would not have had her assassinated.
It is unclear now who namely killed mrs. Politkovskaya and who namely ordered the murder. You suggest that they are Russian authorities. Why do you think so?

Nibbler said:
Would you rather be an investigative journalist in today's Russia or Ireland (Guerlain), or today's America? Evil is evil, irrespective of pathetic attempts to claim moral equivalence...
Alas, killings of journalists are common nowdays.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164559,00.html

An American freelance journalist, who accused Basra's police of being infiltrated by Shiite militiamen in a recent New York Times column and his Internet blog, was found shot to death in the southern city after being abducted by armed men driving a police car.
Btw, namely British authorities bear responsibility for security in Basra. But can we blame them for the killing (moreover accuse them in it)? No of course.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061013/ts_nm/iraq_britain_lloyd_dc

One of Britain's most experienced journalists was unlawfully killed by U.S. soldiers in Iraq, a British inquest into his death ruled on Friday, prompting calls for the perpetrators to be tried for war crimes.

Veteran war correspondent Terry Lloyd...
Note, that in the case with mrs. Politkovskaya we have only allegations and suppositions. But here we see direct accusations.

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/05/03/cameraman.killed/index.html

The Israeli military said Saturday that James Miller, a British cameraman, was killed while covering a clash between Israeli troops and Palestinian gunmen in Gaza.
Btw, the killer was sentenced. So it was a proven murder.
 
#14
The Russians might be far ahead of us in "creative" interrogations but we are certainly travelling on the same road in the same direction.

The Military Commissions Act of 2006 clears the way for the CIA to resume aggressive interrogations in secret prisons and denies suspected terrorists the right to challenge their detentions in civilian courts. It also permits the use of evidence obtained through coercion and lets the president draw the line between acceptable interrogation techniques and impermissible torture.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/15783731.htm
 
#15
The Russians might be far ahead of us in "creative" interrogations but we are certainly travelling on the same road in the same direction.
I give up: you're right: we're about to arrest ex PE teachers and cut their ears off, whilst making them eat their own excrement: yup - we're equivalent to that.
 
#16
Nibbler said:
The Russians might be far ahead of us in "creative" interrogations but we are certainly travelling on the same road in the same direction.
I give up: you're right: we're about to arrest ex PE teachers and cut their ears off, whilst making them eat their own excrement: yup - we're equivalent to that.
Nobody said we were.But we are making progress though.
 
#17
Nibbler said:
And your point is?
It was essentially an IQ test to distinguish between those who could identify political issues and those who would take a personality based view - you have reinforced my Nietzscheian view of certain stereotypes. However, as you need it spelt out, my point is that just like certain other banana republics where passion and self loathing is confused with morality, one should think long and hard before deciding to do any sort of business with this bunch of venal criminals.
Nietsche never had any stereotypes in his writings, but if he had had, he'd have classified you as "einen Ewiggestrigen!". In spite of your best attempts, the Cold War is over. Get it? Vorbei! Fine!

Russia may not be the nicest place in the world with regard to human rights, but there are much worse places. One of them's called America!

MsG

PS. Hey, Knobler! Having just seen your embarrassingly clumsy attempt at German, you should know that the plural of Möse (snatch, fanny, flange etc) is "Mösen. Since that isn't an insult in German anyway, the actual word your looking for is "Fotze". Aaah, these fückin' amateurs!
 
#18
Bugsy7 said:
Nibbler said:
And your point is?
It was essentially an IQ test to distinguish between those who could identify political issues and those who would take a personality based view - you have reinforced my Nietzscheian view of certain stereotypes. However, as you need it spelt out, my point is that just like certain other banana republics where passion and self loathing is confused with morality, one should think long and hard before deciding to do any sort of business with this bunch of venal criminals.
Nietsche never had any stereotypes in his writings, but if he had had, he'd have classified you as "einen Ewiggestrigen!". In spite of your best attempts, the Cold War is over. Get it? Vorbei! Fine!

Russia may not be the nicest place in the world with regard to human rights, but there are much worse places. One of them's called America!

MsG
Back off Bugsy.Inspite of the backwards steps we have taken during the present presidency, we are one of the best places to practice human freedoms.Certainly in the top five.The beat of freedom still goes on in America.

Oh say can you see.....
 
#19
Russia may not be the nicest place in the world with regard to human rights, but there are much worse places. One of them's called America!
Outstanding, arseloch: do you really, sincerely, honestly, believe that? As in: once you are old enough to have children, would you honestly rather bring them up in America or Chechnya/Grozny/Beslan/Moscow???

I have no interest in debating with someone who can make the above statement - you are beneath contempt, and deserve the world you end up in.

(Oh - and whilst you're right on the plural -(it's been a few years) - Fotze vs Moese reflects hochdeutsch (eg educated) vs uneducated: eg, a modern piece of crud who thinks they're fluent...)
 
#20
Nibbler said:
Russia may not be the nicest place in the world with regard to human rights, but there are much worse places. One of them's called America!
Outstanding, arseloch: do you really, sincerely, honestly, believe that? As in: once you are old enough to have children, would you honestly rather bring them up in America or Chechnya/Grozny/Beslan/Moscow???
Ho hum, wrong again, Knobbler! The word is “Arschloch”. Stop making such a prat of yourself!

Nibbler said:
I have no interest in debating with someone who can make the above statement - you are beneath contempt, and deserve the world you end up in.
I bet you’ve waited long and hard to write that ain’t ya, Knobbler? What have the Irish ever done to you that you hate us so much?

Nibbler said:
(Oh - and whilst you're right on the plural -(it's been a few years) - Fotze vs Moese reflects hochdeutsch (eg educated) vs uneducated: eg, a modern piece of crud who thinks they're fluent...)
Don’t try to lecture me on German, Knobbler! It’s got nothing to do with educated or not. It just goes to show how much you know. Dennoch, wenn du es darauf anlegen willst, können wir die weitere Debatte auf Deutsch fort setzen. Mir ist es gleich. Im Gegenteil, ich würde die Gelegenheit willkommen heißen, dich so richtig weg zu putzen.

MsG
 

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