Would you go?

Call-up cut as TA troops say they can't afford it

According to the above link nearly half the first 140 called up are refusing to go because they will be financially disadvantaged  ::)

Sorry but this sort of attitude is a large reason the TA get a bad name. When you sign on you do so on the understanding that if needed you will be compulsory called up and will be paid at regular army rates, if this will cause you problems it is you who has to make the decision, no-one has forced you to join.

I do have sympathy and I feel a much stronger argument is quoted as coming from a wife, Quote: The wife of one member of the unit said: "I think many of those involved felt when they joined the TA that it was about the defence of the realm. But Tony Blair seems to have decided that he wants to police the whole world."

anyone else got an opinion (opens flood gates :) )
Humph - ignorance is no defence, but it is true that the STAB hierachy is woefully bad at explaining the complexities of RFA 96, COLI etc...they major on the "Your Job is protected by law..." bit and don't do much to mention the awkward small print.  A cynic might suspect that this is because if they did, the TA would have a worse retention problem than the regulars.

You are fundamentally right of course.  You sign up freely as an adult, so you shouldn't whinge. It's not quite as simple as that though with some units - see my post somewhere else (Int - TA are Upon US) - regarding specialist units where the Govt simply won't pay for skilled people full time...and won't pay the going rate for their skills when they need them either.

Actually I have far less sympathy for the bleating wife who goes on about "He only thought he was going to defend Britain"  Who the f*ck against ?  Standing around KPs waiting for the Red Horde to descend upon our Scepter'd Isle went out with the bloody Ark. Anybody who signs on imagining that's all that is in store for them has either had their head in a bag for the past decade or is terminally stupid and deserves all they get....and their Chain of Command needs to get a grip of explaining a few home truths.
As has been mentioned elsewhere COLI is banded. If you happen to be a solicitor who likes doing a bit of trucking at the weekends and are a Pte or L/Cpl then it is assumed (incorrectly) that your civilian employment will be of similar stature and pay, and therefore you will loose out as TA pay will not compete. While guaranteed commitments will be taken into account, this has its limits and does not apply to credit card payments and the likes, only car, mortgage etc. Of course this assumes that when mobilised your pay will reach your bank account in the same month. the system being what it is, it usually takes 3-4 months for your pay to catch up with you.

Regulars don't have the issue of pay catch-up, and if you are paid as a Pte, your lifestyle is likely to match that income. If you are a solicitor on £40K pa and have to take a pay cut to £16K knowing that even that will take a couple of months to reach you, would you volunteer?


Book Reviewer
I would only go if dragged kicking and screaming. I'd be the first to admit that I've done well in the last two years since leaving the Army, but I would hate to take the pay drop necessary (over £35K plus loss of pension while mobilised, call it £40K+ in round terms) if I were mobilised. I figure I've done my time and, while I keep my boots in my bag in case I get a game, if you follow, it'll have to be pretty goddamn serious, or compulsory, to get me playing - quite apart from the fact that I am old, fat and bald, now (as opposed to old, plump and balding as I was while still a steely-eyed-killer, versteht sich).
I have to agree with GIAO sentiments.  Who wants to take a pay cut!

I was a STAB Infantry Officer who volunteered to go and do a 3 year SSVC.  It was attractive at the time because I had just left Agric College, was too old to get a SSC and the money in Land Agency was crap.   I really enjoyed myself and I volunteered for every Operation going during those three years.   I declined the invitation to stay on because in three years I'd gone from enthusiastic TA type to classic disillusioned Captain.  I knew terms and conditions were better in Civvi Street so I went in to IT.

Having retrained and on 40K+ and recently rejoined a specialist TA Unit I have to say I would whinge about having to take a pay cut to bail President Tony out.   I not afraid to Soldier, I just don't like giving 10K+ away.

Ultimately the argument about signing up and then complaining when one gets mobilised is correct.  It's worth considering though that whilst the TA may be the butt of some Regulars jokes they are at least making a much bigger contribution than the rest of the civvi population who's sense of Nationalism stretches to turning out at the voting booth to vote for the Political Party offering the biggest tax cut.

Ultimately the Regulars Pay should be better to come into line with civvi street and that might stem the flow of Captains and Majors leaving the Service.   Reserves shouldn't have to lose out on pay - remember that they are prepared to go and do their bit unlike all the non-enlisted of this country.
Good Civies= Good STABS = GOOD LIFE!  This current batch of Territorials who when called believe territorial means "HOME ONLY- and only if I like it and theres a bar and I get money as well" have driven another nail into the coffin of "DISBAND THE TA"
Will we miss them! well we shall soon find out, ask Geoff Hoon or see the announcement in the Telegraph.


Book Reviewer
See my remarks on the Int Cell board. The Telegraph is playing spinmeister for MoD, I think.
can't find anything in E-Telegraph and didn't see it today as was training. So is the Telegraph calling for the disbandment of TA?
There is a proportion of reservists who I've met over the years who make comments like above. And unfortunatley thease people get taken as majority I would say 85% would go if compulsarly called out.
But over the last number of years the TA has take a hell of a kicking from government the cuts in MTD'S have effectivly cut units to training for efficiency certificate and to role training/maintenence etc is going to hell in a handcart. Then we provide people for operations for clearing up foot and mouth etc. Before mtd cuts units trained practialy every weekend and there was cohesion and loyality now since we just have enough time to qualify for bounty we have become what alot of us despised in TA the 'bounty hunter' those individual's who did minimum needed to get their bounty at end of tax year and then vanished till next year. And in a few units i've been the ones promoted to encourage them to attend.


Book Reviewer
The Telegraph last week preemptively floated the story of volunteers "refusing to go". The sources quoted were fairly obviously special advisers in MoD.
            I agree partially with what you said about the attitudes of TA personel when called up.
However i think the blame should lie mostly with the Govt. as they are quite happy to get bums on seats and include the TA manning numbers whenever they are quoting that the TA makes up a quarter of the strength of the British Army. If the Govt wants to make use of solicitors from civvy street who are ptes/lcpls at the weekend then the govt should foot the bill.
If the govt payed the TA personel the same as their civvy jobs then in my opinion nobody in the TA should be able to refuse to be called up.
Problem solved..... ;D
  I  won't volunteer to go but if brown envelope arrive,s
tough gotta go. even though with wife working child care a bit of problem tony gonna pay for a nanny?
    and my pay as a private want match my civvi income
so  gonna upset wife. Buti signed the paper so thats it
According to people who have passed through Chilwell recently, the planning figures the MOD are using are allowing the medical and dental exams to weed out anyone who isn't 100% fit i.e. call 2 out for 1 job and send the healthiest !

This can be very disruptive to family and work if you have been called up, made lots of plans, sorted your boss out and are back after 2 days, saying "it's OK, !'M back, you can sack the temp now !"

This is not a hint to would-be draft dodgers to start drinking lots of Ribena !


I can safely say that as a 21 Y/O L/Bdr, I would lose a hell of a lot of money if they mob'd me for Iraq. I'm on Circa 30K as a Computer Developer.

But saying that, If I get Mob'd, I get Mob'd thats what I signed the Paperwork for. So long as the amount the pay me covers my bills while I'm away then I'd go.
I don't plan to go on Op Telic to make money! I expect to go out there to sort out a lunatic.

I didn't join the TA for the money, if you did, you joined for the wrong reason.

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