Would you fire this?

#1
Well, would you? 8O


A cut-down Enfield (understatement, what), with a modified EY launcher for a No.36 Mills.

I came across this, indirectly, on some gaming/fan site where one member is advising another about ‘props’ (?) for Star Wars?

See poster ‘silian’

Err……no I would not. You can if you want and I don’t mind watching – through field glasses. Shame they spoilt an EY though. :(

No.9
 
#2
No.9 said:
Well, would you? 8O


A cut-down Enfield (understatement, what), with a modified EY launcher for a No.36 Mills.

I came across this, indirectly, on some gaming/fan site where one member is advising another about ‘props’ (?) for Star Wars?

See poster ‘silian’

Err……no I would not. You can if you want and I don’t mind watching – through field glasses. Shame they spoilt an EY though. :(

No.9
-Sure, Just let tie this 50ft piece of shroud line to the trigger first :p
 
#3
Considering the immense strength of the Lee Enfield's bolt and breech, it's probably quite safe to fire, although the recoil on the palm of your hand would be a bitch. How much use as a grenade projector it would be is debatable as the cordite propellant in the cartridge would have a reduced burn time in the shortened barrel, thus reducing the force applied to the grenade. But yeah, I'd give it a go. I've fired worse!
 
#5
I would think you would rest the "butt" on the ground and fire it like a mortar - but why not use a mortar?

Cheers,

Ex STAB
 
#6
EX_STAB said:
I would think you would rest the "butt" on the ground and fire it like a mortar - but why not use a mortar?

Cheers,

Ex STAB
I remember being told by my History teacher at school about a small WW2 Japanese mortar (akin to our 2"/51mm) that had a curved base-plate. Allegedly many Japanese soldiers thought that this was to sit snugly on the bent thigh for firing from the kneeling position - an assumption that (again allegedly) had catastrophic results.

EX-STAB's post just jogged my memory. I know it's at a tangent to the thread, but is anyone in a position to confirm or deny? Always risky putting a good story to the truth test....
 
#7
The system as shown is a non-starter for hand firing - Having fired Energa grenades off a No 4 (don't ask..!) I can assure you that the illustrated solution would not work!

The discharger argument is a possibility, this is how it was done on early AFVs firing 80 grenades, however....

My main suspision is that it is an early Star Wars propgun... If you remember the original star wars episode used a lot of hacked about de-acts such as sterlings with singlepoint sights etc. I seems to recall the creatures on the big elephant things had some sort of weapon made up from hacked enfields. remember that this film was made in the UK and there was a load of stuff being ditched from Donnington around this time..

(excuse poor use of Star Wars terms , but I ain't THAT sort of an anorak!)
 
#8
I think HE117's right now I've looked up the thread in the first post.

I'd still fire it but only mortar stylee.

Cheers,

Ex STAB
 
#9
Look you are all wrong, that is a REAL weapon and I recieved training on it whilst attending 49 PARA selection. Each "Viper" team carried at least one of them, its called a .80 WalthenBuster SFV (Special Forces Version)
 
#10
I think brettarider is right if you look at bottom left there is a lifting eye and the whole contraption seems to be held in a bracket. proberbly a prototype smoke grenade discharger?
 
#11
Wellyhead
Don't you realise that I only suggested the Star Wars thing as a smokescreen for OPSEC?

One of the prop armourers must have had some 49 PARA background and copied it.

Cheers,

Ex STAB
 
#12
Being a total saddo anorak I seem to remember that the Jawas in the original Star Wars used some sort of weapon which was made with the enfield discharger cup as the muzzle. Plus a british No3 rifle grenade being used as the basis for Obi Wans' light sabre and of course the numerous P03 bandoliers and earlier Boer war type hacked up for other props.

http://www.jedi-academy.com/

:)
 
#13
EX_STAB said:
I would think you would rest the "butt" on the ground and fire it like a mortar - but why not use a mortar?

Cheers,

Ex STAB
I have a smeaking suspicion that whoever made this couldn't get their hands on a mortar... I'd really like to hear about its history.

(anyone remember the Energa? - a pointy grenade to fit on a .303 and used with a (black) ballistite blank cartridge - you put the butt in the ground otherwise prepare to watch your 2 butts meet - and this was General Service not just for 49 Para)
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#14
It was a smoke/36 grenade discharger for vehicles based on very worn EY smle and earlier modles. There are examples in the Lee Enfield Story By Ian Skennerton. I believe the Marmot Harrington Armoured Car had them but I'm sure some donkey driving Yeoman will put us right!
Page 358 shows a 2 1/2 " smoke discharger for Armoured vehicles and its from the NAA in chelsea!
 
#15
I remember SMGs for the Stormtroopers (didn't they have an MG42 in ESB?), Broomhandle Mauser with bit stuck on the muzzle for Solo, maybe a chopped up Lewis LMG a Walther I think for Leia at some point... damn I'm going to have to watch them again with anorak on.
 
#16
The Star Wars thingy is correct.In the film,the Jawas(?) shoot R2D2 with the same sort of gun.Considering George Lucas made big use of existing weaponry (in one scene you can see the empty brass being ejected from the modified Stirling SMG'S) if that was a real gun from 19?? ,I'm sure he would've used it in the movies.
 

Attachments

#17
Lots of good info and observations, even interesting trivia on Star Wars.

Couple of points raised about the EY:

”Considering the immense strength of the Lee Enfield's bolt and breech, it's probably quite safe to fire, although the recoil on the palm of your hand would be a bitch.”

”I would think you would rest the "butt" on the ground and fire it like a mortar - but why not use a mortar?”



The attachment to be carried by a few trained men in a Troop/Section to quickly provide extra grenade range when needed. Also needed were discs to screw to the base of the grenade to improve gas sealing in the cup, and appropriate blanks. The rifle was angled like a 2” mortar with the butt on the ground so recoil is absorbed. The rifle held magazine up, facing firer, making it easier to ‘flick’ the trigger. Range for a No.36, with a 7 sec. fuse, about 70 yds.

There are examples of Enfields supposedly being permanently assigned to this purpose and having sections of the barrel and furniture strengthen with wire, as below.


However, I had heard of usage said to spoil bullet accuracy, but not of any splitting or anyone carrying a dedicated Enfield? As said, if you’re going to do that why not carry a 2”? I know of one instance of an EY being used by No.9 Cdo on Mt. Faito, Italy, in ’44, so asked a Cpl who was there. He said only one or two men per Troop carried EY’s, (one in his Troop), in the form of cup, discs and blanks only. They had no purpose assigned rifles and screwed the cup to their regular Enfield when needed. On this occasion three No.36s were fired at approx. maximum range and the Officers’ report states one of the three failed to explode though the other two were effective.

Why they didn’t use a 2” was simply that the subsection of four among the forward party of about ten, didn’t have one, and, being raked by two German LMG positions while under a mortar barrage it wasn’t convenient to try and get one moved up.

No.9
 
#18
I have seen a very similar arrangement of cut-down Lee Enfield, but without the Star Wars grenande discharger cup, in a museum somewhere in the area of Ypres. (may have been the one at Hooge Crater?)

I thought at the time it had been modified for use in trench fighting, but perhaps it's just a stray prop?
 
#19
Themanwho said:
Considering the immense strength of the Lee Enfield's bolt and breech, it's probably quite safe to fire, although the recoil on the palm of your hand would be a bitch. How much use as a grenade projector it would be is debatable as the cordite propellant in the cartridge would have a reduced burn time in the shortened barrel, thus reducing the force applied to the grenade. But yeah, I'd give it a go. I've fired worse!
So what's this "worse" you've actually fired then, Deemanoo? Or were you thinking of these honourable gentlemen of the "Kölner Schützenverein?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXXu5NFTOpE

Some of these "Böllerschutzgeräte" can reach a muzzle-size of five inches and regularly throw their users on their backs. But, of course, that wouldn't be a problem for you, would it, Angeber? The other one plays "The Bells of St Louis" if you want to know.

MsG
 
#20
HE117 said:
The system as shown is a non-starter for hand firing - Having fired Energa grenades off a No 4 (don't ask..!)
Don't ask?
With a user name like "HE117" we know! Yep the 25 pounder was indeed the best piece of equipment I have served on, and I served on most of them at Larkhill.
As for the smoke discharger, the downfall being you can not operate it whilst battened down!
 

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