Would the UK be safer in or out of the EU?

Would the UK be safer in or out of the EU?

  • Safer Out

    Votes: 303 87.6%
  • Safer In

    Votes: 43 12.4%

  • Total voters
    346
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Bad CO

Admin
I know that there are already massive threads discussing the EU referendum and the current state of play regarding asylum seekers/immigrants but this one is dedicated to UK security only. There's a long article on the BBC website on the subject which is also being covered by newsnight tonight (25 Apr). I think it is quite a pleasant change to see the subject of national security being covered by the mass media so thought we ought to have a thread of our own.

In my opinion, membership of the EU confers significant positive advantages to this country but I struggle to find many relating to security. Certainly when considered against the relationships we have through membership of NATO and the four eyes community it offers little of real significance. It always really annoys me when NATO is ignored by those wishing to play up the benefits of EU membership. The simple fact is that the military might it possesses was the only thing that guaranteed peace in the late 20th century and ultimately won the cold war. Even today, those countries concerned by Russia are desperate for the protection that membership confers.
 

Bad CO

Admin
Good point!
 

ACAB

LE
I don't really care if we would be better off in or out. I just want us to be able to determine our own destiny again. Sure, there will be cock ups and disasters but it isn't like there's a shortage of them in the EU already.

Our Security has nothing to do with the EU. Paris and Brussels prove the lie to that.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
If we leave, we lose the European Arrest Warrant. I would imagine that the DLO/FLO network would have to be re-negotiated in its entirety, and I further imagine that relations between 5&6 and their EU counterparts may come under some strain.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Membership of the EU gives us exactly the same security that not being in the EU gives.

Some people seem to be posting as though leaving the EU means we automatically have to go to war with them!

Being in the EU brought the ridiculous contract system whereby, if it was not something linked to national security then any contract had to go out to tender to any company in the EU and that the bidding process had to include EU countries. Maybe if we leave the EU then contracts can be given to UK companies. This is not restricted to defence matters.

I am also not convinced that our security would be enhanced by the EU whosebdevidion making had not been of the highest calibre!

Nope, don't think that subjugating ourselves to the EU will enhance security.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
I may, and it's been one of those days, be missing something. But surely it's immaterial whether we would be safer in or out of the EU. We all seem to face the same external problem.

So non cooperation from continental Europe seems extremely short sighted. Given our physical position and our alleged amounts of outraged die hard jihadis ready to roll.
If they exist, our home grown jihadis are as much a danger to the continent as they are to here. Intelligence or at the least information is a two way street.
 

jarrod248

LE
Gallery Guru
If we get out quickly we won't be party to paying towards the mess when it starts to collapse I hope. If we aren't paying to them we should save a lot of money that would be useful. It seems /turkey could be the next to join as we go slowly down the drain. It has to collapse but it's just a matter of when. I think we should be the first out unlike when we were late to join.
 
If we leave, we lose the European Arrest Warrant. .
That would be worth leaving on its own for, Fascistic piece of Napoleonic code garbage that the EAW is: 'your innocence is to be proven citizen, by the dutiful application of the States agents'.
 

Tyk

LE
In security cooperation and sharing terms the EU is a total irrelevance, the Security Services of countries work with each other based on many criteria, EU membership matters not a damn as the people in those services are pragmatic and realistic. Trust (as far as it's extended) in handling data properly and supporting each others efforts is what matters.

Same is true for International Policing although they pay a good deal more public PR facing attention to the likes of the EU, that's just politics for the papers though.

Military cooperation has NATO as a front and the Security Services at the back, again EU membership is an irrelevance although it does make it a bit easier for people to be at NATO sites on the mainland without needing a visa, but that's a trivial formality.

On the actual risk front membership is a material risk. The open borders, free passage of enemies and material across Europe makes the job of security trickier. I see no actual positives and several potential (ok, real as evidenced by recent Belgian events) negatives to EU membership in safety terms.

Plus, let's face it who actually trusts the Frogs/Dago's/Wops etc? :D
 
Whether or not we take advantage of not being part of that political union will determine our relative security. Unfortunately, half of our political class seem hell-bent on actively subverting our posture on such issues. Another half (but not the one you may think, initially) would simply use either decision to wreak economic and security havoc on us anyway. I remember wondering why the hell anyone in Northern Ireland would vote for the two parties on their respective extremes back in the early nineties, which they did, like herds of vaguely suicidal buffalo; I have a suspicion that the same thought processes will work on the minds of the UK populace from now on, with the Referendum as a start-point.
 
It depends if you mean safer from a military, economic or security point of view.

Personally I think we will be better out.

Of course, the points raised with regards to NATO trump anything the EU can cobble together. Economically, I think we are strong enough to stand on our own two feet. We were fine with the EEC before Brussels got their claws in.

To be honest I think the biggest reasons to leave are for security (border control) and sovereignty.
 
If we leave, we lose the European Arrest Warrant. I would imagine that the DLO/FLO network would have to be re-negotiated in its entirety, and I further imagine that relations between 5&6 and their EU counterparts may come under some strain.
If the powers at be are unable to work around the EAW or implement a replacement then they shouldn't be in such important roles.

IMO the UK simply wants to ensure its law & order, criminal process and protocols can work more efficiently with our neighbouring countries not hinder it.

As its been previously stated the EU in its current form has made a complete balls up of mostly all of the recent crisis & issues, dictating instead of showing joint leadership....

Our UK national security isn't one serious issue I want simply left to the muppets to control in the EU! Over dramatic that sounds but it's simply not fit for purpose...


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Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I think the EU would be safer if the UK took over! ;)
 
I think we will all find that we will all wake up the next day, go to work at whatever we do, and still talk to all our mates from the day before.
A bit like leaving junior school.
To think that law enforcement or intelligence agencies cut the phones and their mates/colleagues abroad off at midnight is ridiculous and very naive.
The jidahist threat to the UK comes from the UK, (and a certain south Asian country ending in Stan) not (at present) from the Maghreb or their outstation in Europe, Belgium.
Before the EAW people were extradited all over Europe and elsewhere without any problems, just a little bit slower than it currently is.
Oh, and a nice earner for the respective briefs.
Unfortunately, counting against us, is our complete lack of border control at present.
In the current onslaught from the ROP nothing, but nothing will change the exchange of intelligence or co-operation in or out of the EU.
Lack of our border control by us is the biggest threat to us.
Currently a joke, and not about to get better in or out of the EU.
Someone somewhere in HMG take note
 

ACAB

LE
Lack of our border control by us is the biggest threat to us.
Currently a joke, and not about to get better in or out of the EU.
Someone somewhere in HMG take note
Correct, though it is conveniently laid at the door of the EU. Lack of control of third worlders is our problem, no one elses.
 
I think the EU would be safer if the UK took over! ;)
Wah on

And make the UK a even bigger target than it already is?

Wah off






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Tyk

LE
I think the EU would be safer if the UK took over! ;)
Well that's obvious, look at the civilised places all over the planet that turned into complete shitholes following their exit from the Empire, there's overwhelming evidence that proper colonial rule instils security (true a few thousand 303 or .577 rounds downrange is effective motivation, volley by ranks!!) and culture.
 
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