Would someone care to explain...

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Oddbod, Aug 7, 2013.

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  1. ....how it cost the Japanese Navy less to build a complete "flat deck destroyer" than the alleged cost of fitting OUR future aircraft carriers with cat & trap?
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  2. Who got the contract?
  3. Not BAE or anyone associated with them.
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  4. You may well have just found your question answered.
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  5. Did they use captured prisoners of war?
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  6. Airfix.
  7. Ours is 30m longer.
  8. Slowest launch ever;
  9. Well other than the BAE factor:

    Is the Japanese ship fully fitted out or is it just the hull & they need to spend more money finishing it off? Does that cost include R&D or is it just build costs?

    The quoted cost for fitting cat&trap is "questionable" Not a boffin has, plausibly, suggested on the various threads that it includes operating costs across its service life not just supply & fit
  10. It's easy to have a pop at BAE, but have you ever considered why they get away with it ? However poor they may be, they keep getting paid. Having worked for them in defence a few times, I'll tell you why; because the MoD are even worse.

    No matter how badly we screwed the pooch, we always had a list of fuckups from their side we could trade off against. When we delivered what they asked for they'd look dazed and mumble, "err, we actually wanted ..." Which, all too often was what we suggested they might like a decade ago, only to be told by some arrogant, ignorant tool that we knew nothing.

    The civilian staff earn far less than we do for the equivalent job and their quality reflects that. We wouldn't touch most of them with a bargepole. And that's before they get moved just as they get used to the job into a post they are not qualified or experienced for.

    But for the gold standard in inexperienced, unqualified staff parachuted into posts they know nothing about you have to look at the uniformed staff. Keen, punchy, on a mission to get that OJAR nailed by doing something, anything to look good. The few that do care invariably disappear just as they understand how to do their job properly.

    And the culture is toxic, irredeemably so in my view. Results do not matter, delivery does not matter, all that does is process. Tick the boxes and your career is assured. Mistakes will never follow you, so move often and you will shine.

    Want to emulate the Japanese ? Look very, very carefully at their procurement process and personnel.
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  11. Because they've used extreme cost-saving measures such as fitting a chinese lantern instead of headlights?

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  12. I bleeve you'll find that Izumo is ready to roll as soon as her shakedown trials are done and signed off. I worked in Japan for almost eight years, and for most of that time, my boss was a retired four-ringer - not a sailor, but a naval aviator. Like all Japanese sailors - some of whom, surface and submariners - were my students, he was intensely proud of the navy, trained, as he often reminded me, using the same ethos as the Royal Navy from its very inception. Even the original naval collge was an exact copy of Dartmouth.

    Let's not forget that like the UK, Japan is an island maritime nation, whose Coast Guard alone is almost the same size as the current British Royal Navy. Japan might get up YOUR nose, but the contribution to COMPACFLEET as an antisubmarine screen, honed over many years of joint Pacific fleet exercises, has been more than just valuable - it has been vital.

    The present Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force is, depending on which edition of Janes that you read, either the third or forth largest navy on the planet.

    Like any sensible island nation, they are ready and willing to put their budget where their mouth is.

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  13. We can't even design a new uniform without getting it as wrong as possible.
  14. There was a time when the Japanese Navy was autonomous from government and could do as it pleased such was the influence and respect it had.

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  15. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    It seems bloody expensive for what is essentially the same ship as HMS Ocean. Looks like their procurement team could take a few lessons from MOD. I suppose it's not bad for a second effort.

    HMS Ocean (L12) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia