Would Proportional Representation be the way forward.

Smeggers

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In fact, it makes the 'safe seat' scenario worse.
The ANC in South Africa has won every election since 1994.
Joe Public has no say in who heads the Party Lists. You have to be a party member to vote on that.
So you have gross incompetents near the top of the list because they have a lot of sway in party structures.
Corruption, nepotism, cronyism, downright theft is no bar - if you are 'connected', then you get in.
So how do you explain Conservative/Labour/LibDems party politics.
Conservatives privatize everything and then make a killing selling the shares.
Labour is lead by incompetents who haven't got a clue what they're doing.
Lib Dems just a joke who think they have a realistic chance. 52% of the voting population won't vote for them.
 
You sound surprised
I wasn't surprised PRE 1994!
All went according to ANC's plan.
Now what happens is that an MP will be shifted sideways (ambassadorships and State-owned enterprise directorships are popular) to make way for some other nephew/friend/crony. Normally one who has been caught with their fingers in the till/dick in the secretary elsewhere.
 
So how do you explain Conservative/Labour/LibDems party politics.
Conservatives privatize everything and then make a killing selling the shares.
Labour is lead by incompetents who haven't got a clue what they're doing.
Lib Dems just a joke who think they have a realistic chance. 52% of the voting population won't vote for them.
Because you can vote your MP out if he or she is incompetent.
 
I agree with making the HoL a PR chamber. It was already irrelevant but Blair made it worse.

Include some of those ‘experience’ requirements, nominate people for life peers but the proportion of ‘voting peers’ depends on how your party does.

Hereditary peers? Other life peers? You can still be peers but not vote unless you’re selected to do. One of my tutors was a hereditary peer (Conrad Russell) and he was quite active.
 
Those in favour of PR ask yourself if you would want wee Krankie, Swinson or Lucas making government decisions.
Then as @smeg-head said, look at the state of some of the EU countries......Germany for one. They have a leader who wasn't elected to lead them. Happy to be corrected.
With all the faults of FPTP, it is still a better system that PR.
 
one problem i have with FPTP and the two party system is that the professionalisation of the political class has made it increasingly unlikely that candidates and eventually MP's and party leaders all have to dance to the tune of their party members in order to get on and then get ahead. which basically means that our two choices available to select to run the country both come from more extreme positions that the bulk of the electorate.

whilst i'm not convince by PR i do think something needs to give in our political system. there's clearly a lot of dissatisfaction with the status quo and the longer the nations of the UK vote differently the more i think that discord will grow and eventually make the UK untenable.

more devolution to the regions (mainly england) and a federalised UK?
 

Tyk

LE
I feel you're asking the wrong question, as Political reform is needed. The problem is not the voting system, but whom we are voting for.

Introduce a law requiring:
10 years work experience outside and totally unconnected to politics, any political party, or affiliated insitutions (EG unions).
MP's salary caped at Average national wage +50%. That way if they **** the economy their wages drop, want a better pay rate, raise the economy.
I also reckon compulsory voting, or pay £10, your choice.

A friend of mine, who is pretty much the lefty version of me also reckons a cap on number of terms served is needed, I'm not so sure as you'd loose experience. He argues its an end to safe seats for life, which I can see as a good thing.

Polotics used to be something you moved into after you'd earned some life experince. At current its generally a career you enter straight from university.

There's a good deal of sense in those points, we've seen the results of 30-40 years of what amounts to professional politicians who leave Uni, go straight into working for the party machine until they're elected and then permanently resident on the green benches, they've effectively nothing to add other than being a voting drone.
Cap on terms would be interesting, but it would also throw the good out with the bad, while I'm no fan of his politics Denis Skinner has held his seat for quite a few parliaments, there are plenty of bad ones that are sat in safe seats who never show up other than for junkets and are paired with someone similar on the other side so neither vote.
 

Tyk

LE
Because you can vote your MP out if he or she is incompetent.

Which with PR you can't as the party decides who's the MP and not the voters. One merit of FPTP is that we (theoretically) vote for the individual who's standing in the constituency although the reality is quite a few of the electorate vote for the rosette without engaging even 10% of a braincell, that's democracy for you.
 
Yes.Its great. Just a pity the cvnts are still getting paid. Throw another handful of taxpayers hard earned in the renewable furnace there... :rolleyes:
That would be the Secretary of State for NI, not having a set of balls to stop their wages and bringing back home rule, which most Unionists now would probably back. Although the MLA's are still doing constituency work.
I believe the RHI scheme ran in England and Wales as well and the cost has been curtailed in NI.
 
Every time someone suggests PR for here I can't help thinking about the bollocks it makes of Israeli politics where you can't form a government without having a coalition with small parties. The reason those parties are small is because they are often extremists of one sort of another, leaving the government with no option but to include some extreme policies they don't really want to implement and that most of the population doesn't actually want.
I quite fancy a majority government with a hardline NI minority partner, who will evict all Republic of Ireland passport holders over the border to the Republic of Ireland and create a Protestant state for Protestant people.
 
Having thought about this one a lot, both First Past and PR have advantages. With a two house parliament, maybe the commons could remain FPTP, with an element of STV (Single Transferable vote) to avoid "wasted votes". Meanwhile, the House of Lords could ""evolve" by getting rid of Life peerages (allow current life peers and hereditary peers to elect a few of their fellows to remain) and elect some "Lords electoral" by PR from each region to fill at least half the House.
 
We were asked the question if we wanted PR, we said no.
And that should be the end of it, [both the thread and the subject] but no they keep harping on in the hope, like a nagging wife, or small whiny child, that we'll eventually give in and let them have it just for some peace and quiet.
 

Yokel

LE
I once heard a suggestion to weight the voting power of MPs according to what of cvotes cast were for them. Get 80% of votes cast? You have 0.8 votes.

Not sure how you would count the votes in Parliament.
 

NSP

LE
The main drawback I can see is that it would lead to more coalition governments with minor parties holding more sway than they would otherwise in the horsetrading that would occur

In theory it's a fairer system, in practice I'm not so sure
Indeed - given our "minor parties" include the SNP and Greens. And to a lesser extent (in damage terms), the Brexit Party.
 
I once heard a suggestion to weight the voting power of MPs according to what of cvotes cast were for them. Get 80% of votes cast? You have 0.8 votes.

Not sure how you would count the votes in Parliament.
I like it.

Re parliament voting the lobby nonsense just drags things out in a deeply inefficient manner. Votes in the HoC are not anonymous so there is no excuse to keep rejecting electronic voting.

The caveat would obviously be the % majority would also need to be multiplied by constituency size to deal with the inequalities in that area.
 
NO IT WOULD NOT :( !!
 
Those in favour of PR ask yourself if you would want wee Krankie, Swinson or Lucas making government decisions.
Then as @smeg-head said, look at the state of some of the EU countries......Germany for one. They have a leader who wasn't elected to lead them. Happy to be corrected.
With all the faults of FPTP, it is still a better system that PR.


Ill thought through post.


Lots of unelected people, like Mr. Farage for example, exercise massive influence directly because of our voting system. Look at TBP's actions in the run up to this GE.

Small parties hardly anyone votes for, hi Arlene, have power already, by murky arrangements.

Much as i disagree with UKIP and everyone who voted for them, they got, what, 12% of the vote a few elections ago (i lost count) and 1 MP.

Similar with Greens.


That's just not right. Not at all.

PR and every vote counts.


The Poles have The Beer Party, essentially a political equivalent of CAMRA, in Parliament.

If that's not the clincher, you're beneath contempt.

Mind you, I'm having a few months sober....
 
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