Would Proportional Representation be the way forward.

Smeggers

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At the finale of every General Election, one or two luvvies are wheeled out to bleat about proportional representation; how the election is tilted towards the "first past the post system" we currently employ and how it is grossly unfair that the majority of those who voted are not represented by the political party of their choice. The figures from the last election seem to support this:
PARTY. SEATS. NET CHANGE IN SEATS +/- VOTES
Conservative. 318. Net change in seats -13. 13,636,684
Labour. 262. Net change in seats +30. 12,877,918
SNP 35. Net change in seats -21. 977,568
Liberal Democrat 12. Net change in seats. +4. 2,371,861

If MP's seats were awarded at 100,000 votes per seat, Tories would have 136, Labour 128, SNP 9 and Lib Dems 23.

Do you think this would encourage more people to vote and, more importantly, do you think it is a fairer system?
 
We were asked the question if we wanted PR, we said no.
 
The main drawback I can see is that it would lead to more coalition governments with minor parties holding more sway than they would otherwise in the horsetrading that would occur

In theory it's a fairer system, in practice I'm not so sure
 

endure

GCM
PR is always the way forward if a political party has just lost an election. If they've won it then PR is a ridiculous suggestion...
 

Tyk

LE
The main drawback I can see is that it would lead to more coalition governments with minor parties holding more sway than they would otherwise in the horsetrading that would occur

In theory it's a fairer system, in practice I'm not so sure

In theory coalition governments should put a damper on extremism, the reality on the other hand is that the minor partners can effectively hold the Government to ransom and it's all an even bigger clusterF than the current situation.
I've thought about this a fair bit in the past and while I support the concept of PR I doubt the results would be stellar.

Personally I'm of the opinion the only meaningful reform, at least for the moment, is to set constituency boundaries with close to the same number of voters per constituency. Admittedly this would clobber a fair few SNP seats as while Scotland is physically big its overall population is pretty small.
 
We were asked the question if we wanted PR, we said no.


I voted against.

I am now less convinced it was the correct thing to do.

I have always favoured first past the post but I am no longer convinced it works well for the electorate
for instance at the SNP got a paltry 977,000 votes and yet they have 35 MP's, UKIP had 600,000 voters and got no MP's. The pox ridden Libdems got around 2.4 million votes and 12 MP's

On those results the Greens got an MP with less votes than UKIP who got non, and the SNP got 3 times more MP's than Libdems who had 2.5 times as many votes.

The first past the post system now artificially keeps in power MP's and party's that aren't supported by the electorate. Perhaps it is time for a change.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Just look at Germany with Merkel clinging to power like the provetbial to a blanket, or Belguim having no government for months as they wrangled with each other. FPTP is the best of the worst of systems. Bringing in compulsary voting would be better.
 
See the problems Israel has with ProRep and the deals done with the more extreme parties.
 

Smeggers

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I agree about the coalition governments. Italy have an horrendous problem with PR and their Coalition governments of the past, but other countries have worked out a system of voting for first, second and third preferences and that seems to work.
 

FORMER_FYRDMAN

LE
Book Reviewer
In theory coalition governments should put a damper on extremism, the reality on the other hand is that the minor partners can effectively hold the Government to ransom and it's all an even bigger clusterF than the current situation.
I've thought about this a fair bit in the past and while I support the concept of PR I doubt the results would be stellar.

Personally I'm of the opinion the only meaningful reform, at least for the moment, is to set constituency boundaries with close to the same number of voters per constituency. Admittedly this would clobber a fair few SNP seats as while Scotland is physically big its overall population is pretty small.

What if the extremism is coming from the centre?
 
Often, people vote for change. Bigger Government, more tax, more services. When they've had enough of that, smaller government, less tax, fewer services.

With PR in the UK, you would not get change. You would get constant mediocrity, and have done away with the means to change it. You would never get FPTP back in again, because the parties that had the most to lose would be the power brokers in a hung Parliament.

In the same way that the FTPA was a monumental fcuk-up, so would PR be.
 
Northern Ireland votes in local MLA's on the Single Transferable Vote system. Thats to elect multiple MLA's from each voting boundary of Northern Ireland.. ie 5 MLA's from East Belfast.

Could it be tailored to elect a set number of MP's by county instead of a number single MP boundaries inside counties?
 

Smeggers

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Hippohunter

War Hero
The FPTP winner takes all and **** the rest has no place in a democracy of today. PR is the way to go and there are many forms of it. PR is far more representative of how the electorate voted. To be fair we gave the worst possible form of PR in the Scottish government foisted upon us with the devolution arrangements from Westminster in 1999. Hard not to conclude that this was deliberate to quash any moves for PR throughout the UK. There are far better methods available.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
Northern Ireland votes in local MLA's on the Single Transferable Vote system. Thats to elect multiple MLA's from each voting boundary of Northern Ireland.. ie 5 MLA's from East Belfast.

Could it be tailored to elect a set number of MP's by county instead of a number single MP boundaries inside counties?
And look whats happened there, no government for 2 years plus.
 

diverman

LE
Book Reviewer
The FPTP winner takes all and **** the rest has no place in a democracy of today. PR is the way to go and there are many forms of it. PR is far more representative of how the electorate voted. To be fair we gave the worst possible form of PR in the Scottish government foisted upon us with the devolution arrangements from Westminster in 1999. Hard not to conclude that this was deliberate to quash any moves for PR throughout the UK. There are far better methods available.
No the Scots system devised by Blair et al was to keep Labour in power there, didn't work out too well did it!
 

Smeggers

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Not exactly big diverse countries are they.
Absolutely not but they employ the system as outlined by myself. I am also aware of several trades unions that employ the same system in this country, when voting for General Assembly members, RMT and ASLEF to name a few.
 

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