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Would a Tory Government be any better?

#1
I've no idea if this has been raised before, but I'm intrigued as to whether people think that a Conservative Government (as seems pretty likely come the election) would be better for servicemen?

The key questions for me are:

1. How would a Tory government address the shortfall in funding across all three services?

i.e. more T45, carriers and the sailors to put in them for the navy, more airlift capacity and support helicopters for the airforce, and manpower and equipment for the army? My fear is that they will be no different from the incumbent - cutting capital programmes and doing nothing to address the pay of all three services. I think that both parties will procure Trident - not sure that there is a strategic alternative. They might improve the procurement process - but what evidence do we have that they'd do any better?

2. What would the Tories do about existing operational committments, and are they likely to commit to further ops?

I'm of the view that the Tories might be less inclined to embark on more adventures with our American chums (which may be less of an issue with Obama in office). The committment in Afghanistan may increase in the short to medium term, but will Cameron reduce the numbers in his first term?

3. It is without question that Brown at best doesn't understand the military, and probably outright doesn't like it. What would the attitude of the Tories be?

I'd like to think that the Tories are institutionally closer to the military, and there are far more ex-military folks in their ranks, or even on the list of candidates. Is this enough to overcome the general cynicism of politicians When competing pressures kick in?


A bit of a formless list this, I know (the impact of several rather good glasses of Chianti and a very long day in the office) - but I'd be interested to see what people think.
 
#3
I guess so - and don't get me wrong, the sooner the current shower are shown the door the better! I'm just pretty sure that we'll rapidly realise that politicians in general, once in power, will disappoint!
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#6
Bearing in mind that you should be careful what you wish for but I can't see how an incoming Tory Government could be any worse.

The big disadvantage they will have is, like Maggy in 1979, they will be taking over a dreadful situation in every way. I think Labour's scorched earth policy is designed to make sure the next government will have an impossible task.
 
#7
A big problem the Tory’s face is managing expectations once they get in. They will to some extent be hamstrung by Europe, lack of money and Labour’s implemented policies (including the scorched earth policies). It’s going to take time to start to put things right (where they can, that is).

As to if they will be better? Simply, yes, but all governments fail in the end.
 
#8
It couldn't be any worse...but Conservative doesn't means what it used to & the policies of both parties are horrifyingly similar.
Neither, for example, is prepared to allow a referendum on the EU Lisbon Treaty ratification....So what, you may ask.
Well, if you want England/Britain to be an independent entity the EU is not for you.
You, in the military, are short of heavy-lift transport aircraft which are available off the shelf...from the Americans (horror) or from the Ukraine, Antonovs (more horror)...and far, far cheaper than what follows
But the EU will have none of this, as neither will our own MOD. Europeans want their 'own' heavy-lifter, the A400M, from EADS which should now be flying but, with even more money being thrown at it, is unlikely to be airborne until 2012, if ever.
Contrary to much opinion there has never been any shortage of money for the Armed Forces...but it has been spent on European projects such as FRES...for maybe future wars in the 'Lüneberger Gap'...meanwhile!
For those of you with an interest in what is really going down, I recommend that you regularly visit the two following blogs:

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/ and
http://www.defenceoftherealm.com/

Find out just who is on your side...and be prepared for some surprizes.
 
#11
Bugger All says,
"The big disadvantage they will have is, like Maggy in 1979, they will be taking over a dreadful situation in every way. I think Labour's scorched earth policy is designed to make sure the next government will have an impossible task."

I agree.
john
Only a bad situation that will get even worse before Gorden is kicked out.
 
#12
Hi, Archimedes;
I'm a 'recruit' here & haven't been around enough to have seen Dr.North's postings...but he obviously has you upset...and I wouldn't question your reasons...but would like to know why.
 
#13
jarrod248 said:
I imagine a Tory govt. would cut spending very hard and tax us very hard. I'm not sure that the Tory govt. will be a friend to the forces or the NHS.
There are many site members that will remember better than me what happened under the last tory govt.
Oh they have to cut hard and across the board 'ring-fence' is a meaningless phrase and outside of either withdrawing from AFG or funding a war properly everything else is in the hat.


They have to tax hard Brown has left the cupboard bare, save only a box of IOU and government bonds that he undersold twice. but they must also try and make the tax system work for people and business not against it.

I am afraid all the combining of the various revenue depts has i doubt saved a penny? Between telephone monkeys in scripted call centres and closing down of local tax offices they have i suspect increased the costs to the government business and the individual.

tax twat may either tell me i am in the ball park with that comment or im talking out off my arsse. I hope he will offer his views!


To the question could would they make these hard choices on Tax and cuts with sense and dare i say the word compassion. That will define if they are a party that wants to save Britain or just feather there own nests. Once labour are in opposition it is to much to hope that the liberals will knock them into 3rd place.

They will gob off and pick apart everything Camaron does, that also will define if the Tories are better for that he must tell the truth no matter how unpalatable, and also give us the vote on the EU treaty referendum promised by labour.

But make no mistake the scars of Thatcherism with its rights or wrongs good policys and bad run deep. But labour have like no other time before broken this country.

We also have never had a government that though has truely cared for the forces since the second world war IMHO!


i keep harping on about the film Downfall i think is should be on any thinking persons watch list if they have any intention of voting labour.

edited to add i should have been in bed hours ago fcuking labour fcuk everything even my sleep pattern. :x
 
#14
He doesn't have me upset, permanentexpat, although I find him a bit irritating at times - and am not alone in doing so...

Dr North has appeared on the site on occasion, and put forward his views on certain items of equipment only for people who have used said items of kit in a warzone to respond saying that his assumptions are incorrect, or overly simplistic.

Sadly, Dr North's response to these suggestions was somewhat dismissive, and he has implied more than once that anyone disagreeing with his perspective must be a bit thick.

His recent slating of CGS on the blog did him no favours either - not least since it appeared that he was doing the Labour party spin machine's work for them, using some facts which were a bit tendentious to do so to boot.
 
#15
jarrod248 said:
I imagine a Tory govt. would cut spending very hard and tax us very hard. I'm not sure that the Tory govt. will be a friend to the forces or the NHS.
There are many site members that will remember better than me what happened under the last tory govt.
I'm one of them-Options For Change was one of the most serious blood-letting exercises in recent years.However,whoever becomes Chancellor after the next Election will have an enormously difficult task ahead of him/her,precisely what this moribund administration intends.
 
#17
Thanks for the quick response, Archimedes...and your points are taken.
Apropos the criticism of kit, it may well be that some of it is popular (and maybe fun, too) but that doesn't necessarily make it ideal for the job. I think you will agree that deaths & maimings resulting from the use of unsuitable vehicles should be criticised & deplored...some of this popular, fast, go-anywhere stuff is fine until the IED.
My take on Dr.North is that, more often than not, he knows whereof he speaks...his research is as thorough as it could possibly be and it's not the popularity of a vehicle in which he is interested but that it does the job without unnecessarily taking lives.,,thus his crusade to get the 'Snstch' replaced...although I still see it in pics. from 'The Graveyard of Empires'
Many years ago in another war, a very different war, I had one Willy's Jeep after the other...an almost perfect vehicle for the times & circumstances...and, yes, very popular & fun to drive, but like the 'Snatch' LR it would have been a death-trap in Afghanistan.
Millions are frittered away on 'Vikings', lovely looking machines designed for tha frozen northern reaches of Skandhoovia, sit-over-the-front-wheels Pinzgauers & Italian SUV's uparmoured to the extent that they have no mobility.
Again, correctly protected vehicles are available off the shelf at a fraction of the cost...but neither the MOD nor the GS shows any enthusiasm...and the vast sums allocated to the Armed Service have been swallowed by the A400M Dodo...FRES...Future Lynx...and that beautiful, expensive & useless toy, the Eurofighter.
Whatever Richard North's faults, do not doubt for a moment that his objective is to save lives...and lambast those who do not spend the Defence allocations on our own troops welfare.
I see that we have recently done a 'surge' in Helmand & added to our casualty list in order to show the Americans we still have some clout, using their lent choppers etc. of course...makes your chest swell
 
#18
BuggerAll said:
Bearing in mind that you should be careful what you wish for but I can't see how an incoming Tory Government could be any worse.

The big disadvantage they will have is, like Maggy in 1979, they will be taking over a dreadful situation in every way. I think Labour's scorched earth policy is designed to make sure the next government will have an impossible task.
I totally agree if the Tories get in they will have to take a over a dreadful legacy with no quick fix, and will end up taking the blame for Labours mistakes and inefficency, and subsequently take the blame for someone elses downfalls.

Much like Obama has inherited from Bush.
 
#19
NO

Even if the Glib dems, BNP, UKIP, LOONEY lord mimblesome were to win the next erection in 2010, the financial horror facing them would have to be assimilated.

Any moron hear who thinks otherwise is living on the same planet as PM gordon brown and blood suckers.

Every report that arrives at the desk of the news people contains more reduntancies, lower GDP, banks and top people back on money bonuses in the millions just for turning up!!!

while we on arrse continue to pontificate about the financial or political direction Uk needs to persue, the people in the driving seat, aided by GPS and a map continue to speed down a road that has a "DEAD END" and "NO U TURN" sign visible in the drivers window!

Oh and in the back seat are the leaders of the LIB DEMS, GREEN, UKIP, BNP, LIABORE, SLIMY TORY, and not forgetting stonewall.
 
#20
The differences in policy between Tory and Labour are almost negligible.

What is needed, is not a change of ruling party, but a change in system of democracy. A change which makes representatives answerable to the electorate.

However.... That actually brings about it's own problems, as the "man in the street" is, by-and-large... A berk.
 

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