work/ta conflict - weekends off. (retail)

#1
am sure that this has been done to death else where but my short search didnt find it.

I currently work in retail as an assistant branch manager.
I have been with the company for 4 years and in the ta for 6 years.
I have recently been moved to a new branch where the manager isnt very ta friendly and has said I must work every weekend. He has said that if i wish to continue with the ta I will have to step down to supervisor and take a cut in pay and hours.

The company is technicly infavor of the ta but hr policy just says that time off must be agreed with your line manager. (I confirmed all my dates with my previose manager for the whole of 2009 but apparently that dosnt count any more.)

Am going to talk to SaBRE tomorow, but thought i would ask the all powerfull arrse as well.

Ffw
 
#2
Can't help with the actual question but supportive outrage I can do - surely if your leave has already been agreed, regardless of whether it was a previous manager it would still stand?! Highly unfair if the HR policy does infact disregard any previous agreements.

Hope it all works out!
 
#3
No idea of chapter and verse here, but your new boss sounds like a cnut.

Do you have to work every weekend just so he can have every weekend off, or is there actually a good reason for it?
 
#4
cheers

Thanks for the support.

It dosnt count because it was arrainged in another branch and dosent fit in with the plans of the manager in the new branch.

I think he is pissed at being landed with some one he didnt pick himself. Although personaly im just as pissed at having been moved as i used to live 5min from old branch. But hey. Life is s**t some times. On the up side at least i dont work for a bank and i still have a job.

Ffw
 
#5
far-famed_wolf said:
am sure that this has been done to death else where but my short search didnt find it.

I currently work in retail as an assistant branch manager.
I have been with the company for 4 years and in the ta for 6 years.
I have recently been moved to a new branch where the manager isnt very ta friendly and has said I must work every weekend. He has said that if i wish to continue with the ta I will have to step down to supervisor and take a cut in pay and hours.

The company is technicly infavor of the ta but hr policy just says that time off must be agreed with your line manager. (I confirmed all my dates with my previose manager for the whole of 2009 but apparently that dosnt count any more.)

Am going to talk to SaBRE tomorow, but thought i would ask the all powerfull arrse as well.

Ffw
Puff. Grow a set.
 
#6
T_T
He is trying to brown nose the area manager by taking on more "projects" in the hope of being promoted. As a result he now manages 3 branches. This saves on pay role but means that all the assistant managers are haveing to do more work.

The compay like to have a member of management in on a saturday which is the busiest day. But this isnt actualy a company policy as a supervisor could run the branch. In my last 3 branches I have taken it in turns with the boss to have the weekend off. This guy says that he cant afford not to have me in at weekends.
 
#7
far-famed_wolf said:
T_T
He is trying to brown nose the area manager by taking on more "projects" in the hope of being promoted. As a result he now manages 3 branches. This saves on pay role but means that all the assistant managers are haveing to do more work.

The compay like to have a member of management in on a saturday which is the busiest day. But this isnt actualy a company policy as a supervisor could run the branch. In my last 3 branches I have taken it in turns with the boss to have the weekend off. This guy says that he cant afford not to have me in at weekends.
Are you a Union member? If so, talk to your local Rep.

Another effective tactic is to threaten to make an official complaint of "bullying" - no manger wants that on his file, especially is he's desperate to get promoted... :twisted:
 
#8
Septic take on this:

No, I am not trying a "USA is Better" thing here but it is a dam* shame you guys don't get the legal protection that reservists (all services) have over here. For many years now employers have had no right to interfere with reserve activities of employees; whether for weekend drills, annual training (2 weeks) or recall. The current law, Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) came in in 1994 IIRC but previous laws were somewhat similar.

If you google USERRA most of the information is about requiring employers to reemploy reservists returning from active duty but I found a website with some Q&A about drills. ROA link here

My time in green was brief and long ago but the wife was a USN reserve officer for 22 years. I recall reading an article (before USERRA IIRC) about a police chief who ordered a police officer to work Saturday nights between his Saturday and Sunday drills. When the officer refused he was disciplined, suspended etc. When it got to court the town had to pay the officer all his back pay for the time he was suspended plus cost of benefits. Since it was willful the town also had to pay the same amount as punitive damages to the officer. In addition to the pay the police chief was found in contempt and was fined a large sum to be paid personally, not by the town. This is a law with teeth.

Maybe you could petition your MP's to create a similar law there, properly adapted to your legal system. I hate to see any reservist get screwed. Good luck with it.

By the way, lots of employers do much more than the law requires. I work for a city thay pays all reservists called up for active duty the difference between their military pay and their regular pay and also pay all of the health insurance to cover family. I just read that Sears, a big national department store is doing the same thing.
 
#9
I've been in the same situation, I used to work as a junior manager for a well known high street brand. I was moved to another branch going from one manager who was pro-TA to another who was very anti, he started questioning my committment to my job etc.

I'm going to assume he gives you time off in the week in lieu of your weekends? If that's the case you need to look at your original contract -does it state how many hours you must work a week, does it set down that you will be working evey weekend? Usually with retail (unless you are employed specifically for weekends i.e. students) you are expected to work some weekends but not all. Try the whole work-life balance argument. By making you work every weekend he is hampering your ability to have a life outside work.

Also you can claim to your HR dept that he's being discriminatory against you for you TA serivce, he cannot make you step down if you want to do your TA training. He's being totally unreasonable and you can use that against him.

I was able to pull a cheeky one against my manager by questioning his patriotism - 'you wouldn't want to be seen as preventing me from carrying out my duties for Queen & country, that would be very unpatriotic, the sort of thing that ends up in the Daily Mail and could be very damaging for the company's reputation'

I'm out of retail now, but if you want any advice or info for taking these b*ggers on feel free to pm me.
 
#10
Countrylad said:
Also you can claim to your HR dept that he's being discriminatory against you for you TA serivce, he cannot make you step down if you want to do your TA training.
Sadly this is not against any law.

msr
 
#12
msr said:
Countrylad said:
Also you can claim to your HR dept that he's being discriminatory against you for you TA serivce, he cannot make you step down if you want to do your TA training.
Sadly this is not against any law.

msr
True; but if it's obvious you're being treated differently to other employees and there's no reasonable explanation for that then you can play the bullying / harassment card. Don't stress the TA angle, stress the unreasonable nature of his treatment of you.

That said, if HR don't care there's nothing to do but leave or get a new job. There is no effective employment protection, and all SABRE can do is talk.
 
#13
Reading how our friends over the pond work has made me wonder if its worth seeing if people would support a change in the law.

Under current legislation you cant be fired/negitivly re-rolled as a result of your liability to be mobalised.

Your company is under no obligation to alow training to happen.

If you are prevented from attending training weekends then you would become undeployable.

logic (sorry for swearing) suggests that it is therefor in the national intrest to protect the ta against this.

I understand that we dont want to upset businesses so that they dont hire us, so suggest the following compramise.

My unit runs 2 weekends a month (assuming u do no extra courses)

So employers should be made to accomodate at least 14 weekends a year for ta training. Assuming that your contract dosnt spersificly say that you must work weekends.

What do people think?
Am sure it would probably need a bit more debat/number crunching/spell checking/support befor writeing to an MP with it.
 

Command_doh

LE
Book Reviewer
#14
So employers should be made
No. Working in retail has a heavy emphasis on weekend trading, as you rightly pointed out. Sadly, some Companies/industries are not convenient for the TA, and many require special permission from your employer to just be in the TA. Mine (Civil Service) is an example, and I have to keep re-asking for permission to be in the TA.

Could you just not do the minimum commitment? Actually, if you are Independent, they would probably get the ******** if you didn't pitch up with some frequency, yes?

Could you not take it higher in the food chain and ask to be relocated (hopefully to a branch where a Manager is more accepting of your commitment)?

Bottom line is, they don't have to accomodate you. Sadly.

he sort of thing that ends up in the Daily Mail
I remember after Telic 1, there was a double page piece in the Sunday Mirror about 'how badly the TA had been treated in loosing their jobs when they reported after demobbing'.

I knew one of the people personally, and the circumstances were 'massaged at best', lies at worse, and the paper had twisted the other 3 people's stories to make it look like they had been shafted when in fact their employer had acted legally. The point was, legislation in effect in 2003 was so shambolic (some argue it still is easy for your employer to 'remove your post') that there really wasn't any legal protection if you lost your job during mobilisation.

Anyway, I digress.

If you can't transfer branches and you are Independent, have you thought of going specialiset and 'bounty hunting' (for lack of a kinder description), IE just doing the 19 days? Maybe your boss will be more ready to accept 'months and months' between W/E's?
 
#15
I have pretty much the same problem too. I work in support of retail, and work weekend on, weekend off. I didnt hide my TA commitment when I applied for the job, and was told that the TA had a huge impact on the decision to hire me.

I'm now in the position where my weekends off work are spent at the TA, so see very little of the family. This is despite coming to an agreement with the HR dept, who said I could have as much time off, unpaid, as I needed.

I'm currently in the process of drawing up a grievance, as my dept manager is disregarding the info I was given by HR, who in turn will tell me verbally I can have time off, but will not commit it to paper...
 
#16
Im in the same postion with Royal Mail who have a very good TA policy But my line manger is very anti-army (I work in N.Ireland) all our talk about TA leave is done behind closed door which usally ends with him telling me that I cann't go because of staffing level I cann't go to my Union Rep because of were I live. He has said to me if I make to big a deal about it he might let it slip in the pub that I'm in the TA. I'm ready to jack the TA in I hope you fare better
 
#17
When I worked full time in retail, I managed to arrange an agreement where I got every Saturday off to play team sports, and weekends when I needed them in order to conduct training weekends.

The way I discussed it was by basically saying that the existing staff were used to working Saturdays, so me not being there would not put anybody out, I would happily work 3/4 Sundays in order to compensate, and that me having Saturdays off would enable the existing staff to have cover for their days off during the week. As the rest of the staff usually worked weekends or mainly Saturdays anyway, they usually had things like Judo/Karate or other activities arranged for during the week, so they then had cover. For the record, the bosses I had weren't Army-barmy endearing folk, but actually quite hard nosed. They were impressed that I discussed this up front in the interview, and that I had the balls to ask, and so were more forthcoming. In addition, I said I'd be working every Saturday outside of the sports season.

Its all about turning your situation into an asset to the company rather than a hindrance.
 
#19
ford164 said:
Im in the same postion with Royal Mail who have a very good TA policy But my line manger is very anti-army (I work in N.Ireland) all our talk about TA leave is done behind closed door which usally ends with him telling me that I cann't go because of staffing level I cann't go to my Union Rep because of were I live. He has said to me if I make to big a deal about it he might let it slip in the pub that I'm in the TA. I'm ready to jack the TA in I hope you fare better
WHAT!?!? You might want to 'let slip' to the PSNI, that guy's threatening you, don't f**k about shop the blaggard!
 
#20
Countrylad said:
ford164 said:
Im in the same postion with Royal Mail who have a very good TA policy But my line manger is very anti-army (I work in N.Ireland) all our talk about TA leave is done behind closed door which usally ends with him telling me that I cann't go because of staffing level I cann't go to my Union Rep because of were I live. He has said to me if I make to big a deal about it he might let it slip in the pub that I'm in the TA. I'm ready to jack the TA in I hope you fare better
WHAT!?!? You might want to 'let slip' to the PSNI, that guy's threatening you, don't f**k about shop the blaggard!
Seconded. :evil:
 

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