Word from the wise

#1
New thread as earlier ones very long.

This is from Bill Deedes. He is a vastly greater man than Dear Bill from Private Eye. Cabinet Minister. Exceedingly well travelled. Google him for more but this is from Friday last Daily Telegraph. I've put it all here in case it vanishes into archives that demand payment.

Having read it - where is he wrong (if at all) and why cannot our political Adolfs see it?
Muslims can never conform to our ways
By W F Deedes
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 20/10/2006

Ministers appear whimsically to be shifting from the multi-cultural society towards an integrated one. They are whistling in the dark if they think that will play well with the followers of Islam in our midst. Muslims are rooted in their faith and it governs the way they live. It is the only faith on Earth that persuades its followers to seek political power and impose a law — sharia — which shapes everyone's style of life.

For some years now, I have been close to events in Sudan, north and south, on behalf of this newspaper. I find the power of Khartoum awesome. It defies the world over Darfur and will continue to do so. It has reduced Sudan to ruin in an interminable civil war, the mainspring of which was Khartoum's insistence on sharia for the Christian or animist south.

That harsh aspect of Islam is no help at all to relationships here. We see an example of it in the death sentence handed down on a British subject, Mirza Tahir Hussain, in Pakistan that so concerns the Prince of Wales. That was the decision of a religious court. I say all this not in hostility to Muslims, but because, unless we get a clearer understanding of their religion, we shall find peaceful co-existence with the moderate majority (which is crucial) ever harder to attain.

In a little noticed passage of his controversial interview with another newspaper, the Chief of the General Staff, Gen Sir Richard Dannatt spoke of the Islamist threat. "I hope it doesn't make undue progress," he said, "because there is a moral and spiritual vacuum in this country."

That partly explains why we are so far apart. Jack Straw's brush with Islam over veils was only a tiny illustration of the gulf between us.

We have come to regard blasphemy as a symbol of free speech; Islam treats offensive words about the Prophet or the Koran as a serious offence.

It is vain to say: "Well, if they come here, they must conform with British society and its easy ways." Muslims will not do that. Their religion forbids it.

Why do we suppose India had to be partitioned? There was no other way of keeping the peace in that great sub-continent. We cannot do that here, but perhaps we should be thinking in terms of a supreme council on which our principal religions, including Islam, would sit and try to resolve misunderstandings.

What is never going to work is telling followers of Islam here: "You must conform to our ways!"
 
#2
I hate to be un PC. But if muslims want to live in the UK, they should understand that their bollocks laws dont apply to other people here. If you want to live here, learn to live how we do. If you dont like it. Go home.
*Ahem* And im calm.

Edited to not look like a complete nazi racist.
 
#3
My only comment on the 'live like we do' attitude is 'which we?' Chavs on a sink estate, scousers, Glaswegians, South Yorkshire Socialists, ladies who lunch, men educated at Eton and suchlike, etc etc usw usw. The point raisd by Deedes concerning CGS comment on moral and spiritual vacuum is very relevant here. Who is the 'model' Brit/Englishman/Taff/Jock we want these people to imitate?
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#4
The only time I've ever seen a Scouser wearing a veil was just before he robbed a 24 hr Service Station.
 
#10
What exactly is "conforming to British ways"?

Pinstripe suits? Drunken yobbery?

As far as im concerned as long as you obey the law of the land you're "conforming".

Old Bill Deedes is probably a touch nostalgic for the time when the Brit had the whip hand over Johnny Foreigner.
 
#11
Biscuits_AB said:
The only time I've ever seen a Scouser wearing a veil was just before he robbed a 24 hr Service Station.
:worship: :worship: :worship:

Reading that comment I not only laughed so hard that I nearly weed myself, but then the shock or relising that, it is true.

A person in a veil could be english or other, and they could be in it to rob a station ect.

And good old british ways is basically to go out every thursday friday saturday and sunday and get totally shitfaced! or have I been corrupted by my own way of life?
 
#13
I know that it is the law of the land which is question.

But to follow the laws of the land they also need to intergrate themselves into our way of life. I dont mean by totally disregarding their own religen way of life but by respecting it and attemting to learn it.

Its like most of the people that come to England dont even know the basic law of the road yet we give them a drivers licence without blinking. So in essence it is not just their fault (although they should attempt to learn it) it is also our own governments fault.
 
#14
What about:

How about, to gain entrance into this Country.

Pass all regular immigration tests.
Pass a stringent medical examination including TB, AIDS & Cancer Screening.
Pass GCSE English Lit' & Language.
Pass UK Driving Test.
Show that they have enough cash to be self sufficient (Remember that we do not accept economic refugees).
Sign an agreement that states if they are sentenced in a UK Court for any crime, they will be deported.

About right?...............................isn't this an American idea?
 
#16
WasMe said:
What about:

How about, to gain entrance into this Country.

Pass all regular immigration tests.
Pass a stringent medical examination including TB, AIDS & Cancer Screening.
Pass GCSE English Lit' & Language.
Pass UK Driving Test.
Show that they have enough cash to be self sufficient (Remember that we do not accept economic refugees).
Sign an agreement that states if they are sentenced in a UK Court for any crime, they will be deported.

About right?...............................isn't this an American idea?

Totally agree well said old bean
 
#17
OldRedCap said:
My only comment on the 'live like we do' attitude is 'which we?' Chavs on a sink estate, scousers, Glaswegians, South Yorkshire Socialists, ladies who lunch, men educated at Eton and suchlike, etc etc usw usw. The point raisd by Deedes concerning CGS comment on moral and spiritual vacuum is very relevant here. Who is the 'model' Brit/Englishman/Taff/Jock we want these people to imitate?
A very pertinent question, to which I think I have the answer.

All of the stereotypes mentioned above have a representation within the the three armed services, so it is not necessarily society at large which is wrong, but the fibre which is rotten - the moral fibre.

As servicemen, either ex or serving, we generally have that quality in spades, therefore I believe we should be the "model" or even "new model", if you will. It doesn't matter whether one is a barrowboy's son or that of a baronet, we share the same values - fair play, freedom of speech etc. (without wishing to launch in to a polemic on the virtues of the village green preservation society!)

So the answer, clearly, is a diet of cricket, rugby, marmalade on toast, the Daily Telegraph, warm beer, bacon butties, roast pork and crackling on Sundays and twenty weeks vigorous basic training. (Just like school, really!)
 

Legs

ADC
Book Reviewer
#18
Biscuits_AB said:
The only time I've ever seen a Scouser wearing a veil was just before he robbed a 24 hr Service Station.
Now here's a question...

Most banks and Service Stations ask motorcyclists to remove their helmets - this is a security measure so that faces can be seen in on CCTV when they rob the joint. What about veils? Shouldn't they be removed as well for the same reasons - that's equality after all!
 
#19
MSI64 said:
WasMe said:
What about:

How about, to gain entrance into this Country.

Pass all regular immigration tests.
Pass a stringent medical examination including TB, AIDS & Cancer Screening.
Pass GCSE English Lit' & Language.
Pass UK Driving Test.
Show that they have enough cash to be self sufficient (Remember that we do not accept economic refugees).
Sign an agreement that states if they are sentenced in a UK Court for any crime, they will be deported.

About right?...............................isn't this an American idea?

Totally agree well said old bean
Agree as well, with possible exception of GCSE which, if applied strictly and retrospectively, would mean we would have to deport 17.8% of the population. :lol:

Seriously, if they can't even speak the language, they simply become "ghetto-ised" [awful word, sorry] and form a sub-culture in which radical ideas are easy to foment.
 
#20
OldRedCap said:
My only comment on the 'live like we do' attitude is 'which we?' Chavs on a sink estate, scousers, Glaswegians, South Yorkshire Socialists, ladies who lunch, men educated at Eton and suchlike, etc etc usw usw. The point raisd by Deedes concerning CGS comment on moral and spiritual vacuum is very relevant here. Who is the 'model' Brit/Englishman/Taff/Jock we want these people to imitate?
LOL @ Glaswegians. "Weegies" we call them up here, but there are posh areas too - just as there are naff areas of Edinburgh. But I'm PMSL thinking of some old officer residing in Kelvinside or Newtonmearns spitting into his cornflakes after reading that.

Arf :lol: :p
 

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