Women on the front line!

#1
Not too sure of all the details on this one as I only heard a brief news report but it mentioned that there is a certain young lady who is attempting P Company to become the first female para,is this true,are we going to let our ladies really do this what are the headshed upto,it's a piss take!! Could be a GI jane scenario? STOP IT NOW!! Do you want even more of our women coming home in body bags,am I wrong or is there anyone else who thinks the same? :evil:
 
T

trojan

Guest
#2
The soviets didnt have a problem with sending women to the front line on the eastern front to fight the Nazis. I dont have a problem with women serving on the front line in the British army , para or non para . If she can pass P coy then why not ? what more of a test is needed ?
If women can serve in hat sigs , artillery , reme units why shouldnt they be allowed to serve in airborne units ?
 
#3
Think she has come off the course due to injuries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4475439.stm

Women already do serve in the front line - female FOOs (two on Op TELIC - had photo of one of them being given flowers by Iraqis (The Sun took it I think)- she is a minger) and Engr recce.


Danny1297 said:
Do you want even more of our women coming home in body bags,am I wrong or is there anyone else who thinks the same? :evil:
When was the last time this happened?? :?
 
#4
Rather a sweeping statement Trojan,we no longer have a threat of that magnitude,there are enough blokes out ther to do the dirty work without involving the missus! Anyway we need them at home to do the cooking,cleaning etc!!! look at the bigger picture!
 
#7
Ref female FOOs and Engr Recce fair play,my point was more to do with the bayonet and grenade as opposed to the radio,pen and paper! I'm not slagging the guys off but don't you think that the job description is a little different?
 
T

trojan

Guest
#8
Danny1297 said:
Rather a sweeping statement Trojan,we no longer have a threat of that magnitude,there are enough blokes out ther to do the dirty work without involving the missus! Anyway we need them at home to do the cooking,cleaning etc!!! look at the bigger picture!
Oh ok then I didnt realize you need a woman to do your admin . Best leave it at that .
 
#9
Danny1297 said:
Ref female FOOs and Engr Recce fair play,my point was more to do with the bayonet and grenade as opposed to the radio,pen and paper! I'm not slagging the guys off but don't you think that the job description is a little different?
If on foot, the FOOs/Acks move forward with the Inf and do their fair share of removing the Queen's enemies. In Armr, it's another veh to fight with as well as a platform to call fire down on the Queen's enemies. It's not all paper, pen and radio.

In fact, should the Coy Comd get killed, the FOO will take over until they can drag the Coy 2IC up, due to the FOOs knowledge of the plan, his position in the battle etc.

Could the Inf cope with having a female Coy Comd in the form of a female FOO?? How would society see that?? :?
 
#10
Having been in the Targeting trade within the Artillery for a number of years, most people do not realise that women are indeed already on the front line.

Female FOO's although not in massive amounts are out there and yes i have served with a few.

goatbagthedruid is correct when he says that a female FOO could take over a Supported Arm Unit until the 2ic is brought to up.

In the event of FOO party being the assaulting FOO with its supported Arm and the FOO being a female then she will fix bayonets and fight just like the rest, however they are not there to get involved there are there to produce an effect Prior / during and after an operation / battle.
 
#11
If a girl ncan pass P Coy, good on her. She can serve with an AB combat sp or CSS unit. But she still can't join the infantry.
Its not about physical or mental aptitude, but about small unit cohesion and morale. Infantrymen have enough to deal with staying alert on stag, in OPs, watching their arcs and doing their jobs without introducing sexual tensions and the change in male behaviour when a female is brought into the group. Its not necessarily fair on the girls, but the bottom line is - will their inclusion into the infantry make the infantry better at what it does? If so, fair one. If not - and this is where all the analysis takes us - don't go anywhere near it. Armies that have tried it quickly - generally quietly - reverse their decision - or they have infantry that are'nt up to punching people in the face, bayonetting them and posting grenades into peoples lives.
 
#13
Israel tried it then binned it. As for the Ruskies, they had all-female units who were pretty damend nasty in close quarters by all accounts. But they were in single sex units to avoid exactly the problems the learned Grown-Up alludes to.

Women are not allowed into the Infantry not because they cannot physically do the job (although all of the empirical evidence to date suggests that for the vast majority they cannot do the job without lowering physicakl standards - go ask D Inf) but because of the perceived drop in combat effectiveness it will bring. Let's face it, it's the blokes' problem that we cannot deal with women in this situation, but whilst the Inf is all bloke, or until we breed out several thousand years' worth of nature, the introduction of women is unlikely to improve things. Hence, there are no women in the Inf.
 
#15
Worked with female Ops Officer, RMP, LO's, Interpreters, all front line where the rounds still have terminal velocity - had no probs and they were as good if not better than their male counterparts (they had to work harder and it showed) also, the men who worked around them seemed to pick up their game so job's a goodun!

(PS - they weren't all mingers!) :wink:
 
#16
Lots of v sharp gels out there, good under pressure, and lethal - various organisations covert have proven that over the years across the water and elsewhere. Not the issue. The issue is living and training with the opposite sex, with the inevitable forming of relationships (as are rife in mixed sex units), when come H-Hr your own op effectiveness will be affected by excessive concern for a female comrade. Ghastly though it is, the piercing shrieks of a female pinned on barbed wire are more likely to bring a company attack crashing to a halt than male casualties. Human nature. Israelis went through it all in Lebanon in 82.
 
#17
Here's a thread from the Multinational forum on women in combat:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/Forums/viewtopic/t=14817.html

About a month ago the 617th MP Company had one of their 7-Soldier squads break up a convoy ambush of 40 insurgents in Iraq. They killed 26 and captured/wounded another 8. The squad leader and one of the fire team leaders personally dove into the ambusher's trench line and cleared it while covered by a GPMG. The team leader ran back to get a re-supply of ammo and grenades for both of them. The whole combat took about 10 minutes. The MP's took three WIA, one seriously.

The team leader is about 22 years old, and a female. So were some of the other troops. I'm not championing women assigned to Infatry billets; but fighting prowess and concern for a woman instead of the mission is NOT really an issue. Proper training and discipline is.

My two cent worth...

p.s. I wrote the white paper at the URL.
 
#18
V interesting post - and hats off to your analysis. Clearly a cultural issue as well as the physical dimension. I note that it was an MP unit that performed well in an anti-ambush drill, rather than a pukka infantry unit conductig the full spectrum of infantry ops - long term ambushes, OPs, as well as the heavy load-carrying that you describe so well. My bottom line remains, will it make or infantry more effective? I believe we agree.