Women join Australia combat units

#1
From the BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4172538.stm

Women join Australia combat units

Australia's opposition says troops are suffering a skills shortage
The Australian government has authorised the deployment of women in frontline units for the first time.
But Assistant Defence Minister De-Anne Kelly said women would still remain barred from direct combat, serving instead in various support roles.

Women make up about 13% of the 52,000-strong Australian armed forces.



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Also on the site are various readers comments including:

Women don't belong in combat - it also demoralises the men.
It is a welcome development as long as they maintain a support role. Women on no account should be allowed to fight alongside men. While this is not an attempt to discriminate against women, supporting the frontline will be the best thing for women to do. As a member of the Army, I know how stressful and dangerous the frontline is. There should be limitation to what women can do in the Army
.


Personally I did not realise the extent (or lack off) integration of women within the Oz Army, having only worked alongside some of their blokes, however this is not exactly ground-breaking when compared to women in the British Army.
 
#2



No,no, I INSIST. I'll carry your ammo for you.



I'm all for women in combat units!
 
#4
I would be impressed if a woman could pass Infantry IETs on equal terms with the males. My fear is that there will be a lot of downward pressure to ensure women pass IOT validate this government policy. They are already talking about reassessing the PT and physical standards (ie lowering the standards to let women pass.)
The public would be outraged if women were allowed to play top level Rugby and Football with the men, so I can't understand why there isn't a similar view about women serving in infantry etc alongside the men.
I'm sure there are woman out there who are super fit, big and tough enough to do it well, but they are probably training for the olympics and top level female sport, not in the Army.
If they allow a woman in infantry, she should be able to fireman carry a 100kg bloke 100 metres and carry a heavy pack and Mag 58/GPMG just like any other bloke.
I've heard there is already at least one female officer in an infantry battalion, but he officers don't do the same infantry course that the soldiers do. The soldiers course is very physical, but the officers do a course that is more concerned with planning and tewts and doesn't involve much PT and physical stuff. So it's feasible for a female officer to pass that.
If female soldiers were to get accepted into infantry etc, there would be a lot of social and logistical issues to overcome. There are no segregated ablutions in the field. Soldiers shit in holes next to each and piss next to each other. There are no showers. Imagine a women having a period during a six week bush exercise in a hot environment.
In barracks, there are usually no segregated toilets or showers, so their would be a significent capital outlay to upgrade facilities.
Then there would be issues of social acceptance of women by the men. Would they have a tendency to assist the woman by easing the weight in here pack and be more gentlemanly to her than they would to other soldiers? If the SGT screamed at her during a disciplinary or performance issue, like he might to a male soldier, could she complain about harrassment? Would there eventually be sexual conduct issues, like we have seen in the Navy?
There has also been a proposal to enforce a quota of women in senior ranks to increase their numbers. This is so wrong. If women are to be accepted, they need to compete for positions on equal terms as the men. It would be unfair if a better qualified man missed out because they had to put a woman in a role due to a quota. The soldiers would have no respect for the female officer even if she had been selected on equal terms to the men.
SF already have women serving with them. Not in 'badged' roles, but in very critical combat support roles. These women do a great job and give so much more depth and capability to the unit. But they would never be in a team in combat with the men.
I can't see why they don't integrate women into the infantry in a combat support role like this, rather than trying to put them in an infantry section with the blokes.
I know that the Israelis have women, but as I understand, they are not serving as riflemen and Commandos in combat units. The Russians had successful female snipers during WWII but I can't see it working in the modern Australian army in the way the Government has envisaged it.
Maybe I'm old fashioned and sexist?
 

chrisg46

LE
Book Reviewer
#6
I would be impressed if a woman could pass Infantry IETs on equal terms with the males. My fear is that there will be a lot of downward pressure to ensure women pass IOT validate this government policy. They are already talking about reassessing the PT and physical standards (ie lowering the standards to let women pass.)
The public would be outraged if women were allowed to play top level Rugby and Football with the men, so I can't understand why there isn't a similar view about women serving in infantry etc alongside the men.
I'm sure there are woman out there who are super fit, big and tough enough to do it well, but they are probably training for the olympics and top level female sport, not in the Army.
If they allow a woman in infantry, she should be able to fireman carry a 100kg bloke 100 metres and carry a heavy pack and Mag 58/GPMG just like any other bloke.
I've heard there is already at least one female officer in an infantry battalion, but he officers don't do the same infantry course that the soldiers do. The soldiers course is very physical, but the officers do a course that is more concerned with planning and tewts and doesn't involve much PT and physical stuff. So it's feasible for a female officer to pass that.
If female soldiers were to get accepted into infantry etc, there would be a lot of social and logistical issues to overcome. There are no segregated ablutions in the field. Soldiers shit in holes next to each and piss next to each other. There are no showers. Imagine a women having a period during a six week bush exercise in a hot environment.
In barracks, there are usually no segregated toilets or showers, so their would be a significent capital outlay to upgrade facilities.
Then there would be issues of social acceptance of women by the men. Would they have a tendency to assist the woman by easing the weight in here pack and be more gentlemanly to her than they would to other soldiers? If the SGT screamed at her during a disciplinary or performance issue, like he might to a male soldier, could she complain about harrassment? Would there eventually be sexual conduct issues, like we have seen in the Navy?
There has also been a proposal to enforce a quota of women in senior ranks to increase their numbers. This is so wrong. If women are to be accepted, they need to compete for positions on equal terms as the men. It would be unfair if a better qualified man missed out because they had to put a woman in a role due to a quota. The soldiers would have no respect for the female officer even if she had been selected on equal terms to the men.
SF already have women serving with them. Not in 'badged' roles, but in very critical combat support roles. These women do a great job and give so much more depth and capability to the unit. But they would never be in a team in combat with the men.
I can't see why they don't integrate women into the infantry in a combat support role like this, rather than trying to put them in an infantry section with the blokes.
I know that the Israelis have women, but as I understand, they are not serving as riflemen and Commandos in combat units. The Russians had successful female snipers during WWII but I can't see it working in the modern Australian army in the way the Government has envisaged it.
Maybe I'm old fashioned and sexist?
Some food for thought there. Maybe you should start a new thread to discuss it?
 
#7
Cpl Channing Day seemed to hold her end up serving with the Royal Marines, an organisation that would give most australian teeth arm units a good ******* snotting any day of the week, Likewise another female (Navy) sporting an MC for pointy end activities. Their contacts=Most Australian soldier hot dinners

Some of Australia is pulling itself out of the 70s, unfortunately chest beating, mysogynistic racists seem to be holding their ground real well
 
#9
The Russians had successful female snipers during WWII but I can't see it working in the modern Australian army in the way the Government has envisaged it.
Erudite thoughts there 'Q'. Just like to add to that old hairy chestnut - the 'Russian sniper scenario'. This is usually trotted out by those who have not even studied warfare and the role of the sniper. These women did outstanding work, no doubt about it. However, they performed within a narrow window of the the Infantry role (& tasks). Furthermore, This role (sniper) was one that isn't overly physically arduous - the sniper in defence.
 

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