Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by maximillion, May 26, 2007.
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What's all that about then?
Why? What's wrong with it?
Just strange as it seems to be the only place that has them, bar FofS in TM Troops.
Welcome to the modern army of doing jobs 2 ranks above you etc etc!
And in some cases, a WO1 may do the job better!
In the old days (stop yawning in the back and pay attention) WO1 did many of the Troop Commander jobs as, indeed, did some WO2. The practice of putting young officers from the factory as Tp Cmdrs was the exception rather than the rule. Some posts retained WO1 as Tp Cmdrs for a long time, witness 225 Sig Sqn before it closed. WO1s (WOs1?) were Tp Cmdrs right up until it closed. When technical knowledge is required in a post, the WO1 (or even WO2) will do a lot better than a young snot-nose who has as much knowledge of the job as a Siggy before he upgrades to Class 2. When 9 Sigs changed the WO2 Tp Cmdr and brought in young 2nd Lts / Lt to do the job, the place went downhill rapidly. The troops still went to the WO2 for advice due to his/her superior knowledge of trade matters and, indeed, of life itself. And the Lt in post was generally there to p!55 the lads around by organising PT and "corporate bonding" days on their days off. Total waste of rations IMHO.
Eh? Isn't that one rank below? A non officer troopie should be SSgt/WO2, heck of a drop down in position for a WO1. Why in this corps I thought we had the SNCO/officer thing well sorted.
There are two captains (I think) and the rest are WO1 Troop Commanders in charge of the phase 2 and upgraders. I was only asking as to why 11 Sigs seems to be the exception to the rule with the WO1's being from the RD route
Max, you answered your own question. In 11SR the Troops are up to 250+ strong of phase 2 soldiers and experienced NCO upgraders. It is not the territory for a young subbie. At the same time a Capt is much better off being employed leading a Comms troop in the field Army.
This makes the LSN ideal for senior Warrant Officers usually ex RSM who did not take commisioning.
Are WO1 troop commanders only found in the Royal Signals or are they found elsewhere in the British Army?
Would it not make sense though for the it to be the territory for 1st tour, top of the pile, Captains to fill these posts, mirroring the structre (Officer as Tp Comd w/ Tp Hierarchy) which the Ph 2 soldiers will then experience in the Field Army? Why would the Captains be better off leading a comms troop in the field army?
Don't the WO1s usually come from being a SSM somewhere filling in before they take up their RSM slot so time since doing a "troop commanders" job as Staffy has passed a good few yaers before and actual interest in job being minimal?
There is sense to what you say and I am not dismissing it at all.
It comes down to LSN`s and how the unit employs them. Obviously it works and the unit does not feel the need to fill these posts with Captains. Chances are there would not be enough Captains spare to fill them anyway hence they are better employed in field units and these large Troops get the benefit of a top ranker who is able to directly pass on his experience in the Army to phase 2 and phase 3 soldiers.
Are you basing your question on something you have observed or something you have experienced? Do you think the current system is flawed or failing?
I've not had any dramas w/ the Tp Comds either Officer or WO1, I just feel that if/when I am in the same position and I'm posted into 11SR as a WO1 Tp Comd for a year after having completed a SSM post before taking up my WO1 RSM appointment I know how motivated I would be, and I have overheard the same sentiments being bandied around.
Even at a time when there are too many Junior Captains which are being farmed off to infantry/random attachments?
WO1s are much better placed to lead the Phase 2 troops. A 2nd Lt or Lt is not going to get that much benefit out of the post for their future. A WO1 on the other hand is spot on.
It also provides a number of good spots for old WO1s to sit whilst waiting for commisionig (some do), leave the service or move into another slot.
Wasn't the idea of placing WO1s in as Troop Cdrs at Phase 1 once bandied about?
Same thing, an excellent chance for the youngsters to see what they can achieve in 22 yers time, and it doesn't tie up an YO in a slot where they can't really achieve much to further their own skill set and careers.
I don't really think a thrusting Capt should be installed in the slot either. Again, no real benefit (IMHO) for such a person.
Have been and seen one or two troops commanded by WO2s in the field army, and in the main they have been cracking. Like an above poster says, in some troops (and I certainly don't believe they should be used too often) esp the more technical/specialised a YO is just not as good as a WO. They can be taught to as good as standard as any, but you can't teach experience.
If there are too many Captains and they are getting farmed out on other tasks, good. I think a tour as a RSO or Long Look is far better for Rupert, and by default the Corps', than two years in a Phase 2 troop.
I believe the Cav always used to like being in troops commanded by Sgts with two Cpls, as opposed to Lt, Sgt and Cpl.
I'm not sticking my neck out either way! Just a genuine question as I'd never seen it before except for when it's a WO1 FofS in a TM Troop or the position is gapped in a regular Troop for a young inexperienced Rupert and Staff is there to direct things/teach young Rupert where he is going wrong.
From the above posts, is it reasonable to assume that the Officers that are in position as Tp Comds are not as good as their WO1 counterparts or is it good experience before they take on a 2IC/future Adjt slot?
Is it still true that MCM Div are trying to post the cream of every rank to 11SR and the school?
My Tp OC in basic training was a WO1, he was completing his time before he retired, that was back in 88. A good Tp Commander who helped me out when no one from my family could turn up for my passout parade. He contacted the OC Sqn (Ex-ranker) who then organised everything from rail warrants to accomodation in Richmond. I do not think a freshly minted 2Lt would have thought of that and would have needed to have been prodded by the Tp seniors........
I have even had a SGT Tp Cmd as well as a SSGT Tp Cmd, so it isn't a new concept at all. It also depends on the roll and the size of the unit. Though when I left the corp they had already instigated that Bde SSM's became RSM's, which I suppose opened up a few more postings for WO1's that didn't exist before (Then again, they also closed down half of BFG!!)
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