WMIK - Best kit for the job or are we being stiffed?

Discussion in 'Weapons, Equipment & Rations' started by Mr Happy, Jan 10, 2008.

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  1. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Hi Guys,

    Recently Tpr Jack Sadler was killed in AFG whilst in a WMIK. His father is asking a couple of questions, noteably did his son die because of the government/MOD's failure to provide proper kit:

    He emailed the following to a closed Facebook discussion forum on the subject, I'm not qualified to comment but if you've got anything to contribute then I hope his Dad will find either hope or a mission (if needed) out of it.

  2. Understandable though Jack's Dad's grief is, I fear he'll get no joy from following this course.

    The WMIK is a high mobility light fire platform, it's not meant to be a tank. if it were a tank, it wouldn't be able to do its job as well.

    From what I've heard of AFG, and seen in Iraq, WMIK can be a real battle -winning tool. Our job as soldiers is to seek out and combat the enemy; by its very definition a dangerous activity where some will die. You cannot make combat a risk free activity, and to try and make a dreadnought out of a Landrover will not make you safer, it will make you more vulnerable, as you will have lost mobility.

    So I hope, for his sake, Mr Sadler will drop this line of enquiry, as IMHO it will do him no good and will do the soldiers no good.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. the vast majority of the WMIK's in AFG are in fact E-WMIK's (e standing for enhanced).

    these vehicles do provide some protection from mine strikes, in that the underside does have v shaped plates, so that the blast is deflected away.
  4. Tha Taleban on Herrick 4 called them "porcupines' and hated them, they went for the top cover guy first in nearly all contact's. Adam Ingram visited us on H4 and I mentioned that I was about to embark to Musa Qalah in a WMIK (which I showed him) the armour plates provided for the vehicle were basterdised as best possible using 14gauge wire and 'harry black'. obviously this wasn't great. The point to take from it was we did not have the correct fitting equipment to secure the plates, however, I witnessed the incident that caused horrific injury to Ben Parkinson, if it wasn't for the blast matting in the floor of the vehicle the the injuries to that vehicle's occupants would have been catostrophic, as it was all 3 survived with there life. The vehicle as stated is a battle winning concept, and has been since LRDG and David Sterling pioneered them in 1942/43. It is now improved by the new WMIK which is heavier and has integral armour fitting points i'm led to believe.
  5. Re Snatch in Iraq. On T7 my unit did several trips to load new Snatch 2s onto low loaders and take them to SLB. They were clearly intended for the IPS as they were painted up. At that time, as far as I am aware, all units had Snatch availble to them, so it is not true that they were being dished out in prefrence. I dont know if the level of protection offered by these new snatch landys is any better than the much older ones most units used. I was told that the armoured tub is reclaimed off an older vehicle and refurbished before being fitted to a new vehicle, but cant qualify that.
  6. I'm not quite sure what 'snatch' has got to do with a WMIK thread??? Have i missed something? :?
  7. check the second quote on the original post.... something about armoured landys?
  8. Some weeks ago there was a lengthy discussion on ARRSE where some parties (including Mr North) were slating the new MWMIK for being lightly protected. The other side of the argument put forward is that these vehicles are highly mobile, heavily armed (if lightly armoured) and that it isnt always a bad thing to NOT be hidden inside a big metal box.
    Whilst i understand Tpr Saddler's father is grief stricken at his son's death, i am not convinced that that the majority of people who will now jump on the "WMIKs are death traps" band wagon actually know what they are talking about.
    Yes armour/heavily protected vehicles have their place but that is NOT as a mobility platform out in the desert, for example. Whilst it was the case for a period of time that we may not have had the kit/protection needed/desired i firmly believe that, whilst it is a commander's responsibility to reduce the risk to his men as much as is practiceable, force protection has to be balanced with the ability to actually achieve an effect on the OPFOR....which means we cant all wear bomb-doctors suits and sit inside a CR2 with ERA just for the NAAFI run.
    As has been stated many times before re MWMIK and now WMIK/EWMIK, the abiulity to move fast over some testing terrain whilst carrying and using some entertaining belt-fed toys (and having decent situational awareness) carries more weight with a lot of people than purely being a heavily potected target....plus you can always jump out of a WMIK in a hurry.
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Nothing is truley mine-proof. The Yanks lost an Abrahms MBT in Iraq a few years ago to a mine, we had a chally2 taken out by one.

    I can understand Mr Sadler's feelings on this issue but there has to be a line between protection and agility and nothing is perfect. I fear that if he takes his campaigne to a higher level the media will simply use the death of his son as a stick with which to beat HMG.

    I'm sure that this issue is being looked into, by everyone from the tom on the ground to the highest level, but these things do take time. hopefully just no to long.
  10. Seen - must be going blind as well as deaf........ 8O
  11. Couldn't have put it better myself!
  12. Exactly, it is a shame that sometimes these quotes dont make it to the press!
  13. It makes me chuckle though when they say it's a death trap...what, as opposed to those thousands of lead wasps flying towards you? YOU ARE FIGHTING A WAR!!!!!!
  14. And thats the point exactly - its feckin WAR - I'd like to how many folk we'd be mourning the loss of if we HADN'T been using WMIK et'al for all this time. As has been rightly pointed out - most folk have no appreciation of how war is actually fought and with that comes the lack of understanding that in reality the WMIK is actually a weapon in itself and when used correctly can be pivotal in many engagements actually saving far more lives than have been lost by its operators.

    Stop looking to blame the tools and start blaming the enemy. These guys died doing the very best they could with a tool that is perfectly suited to the role its in, lets not have their memory besmirched by turning their loss into some grotesque points scoring scenario that is, ultimately, futile anyway.......

    As my good mate Clint Eastwood once said "War's hell boy and thats a fact."