Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by shandyswiller, May 20, 2004.
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Sounds like your word against your CO's - Who's going to win that argument
It depends on how strongly you feel, and what you are redressing, my mate has just won his case, he was redressing a CR from 3 years ago,(It's taken him that long) and some bigwig, AG or CLF or someone personally got involved because of the length of time it has taken, and he won his case and got promoted on a re-written CR, got 3 years seniority backdated and 3 years WO2 pay - result !
So it's upto you mate, they don't make these thing easy but if you have a strong enough case, keep chipping away - you never know !
I had a redress in a while ago (successful outcome) If your CO says you have withdrawn yours he should be able to produce your written request to do so. My understanding is that you must withdraw in writing. Suggest you refer to AGAIs if in doubt
If your complaint is against your CO, should be the one handling your redress? Surely there is a conflict of interest if he's involved.
I would stick to your guns mate. Also if the officer nominated to assist you isnt coming up with the goods, request a different one. If you know your right, and you give up now, you've only played right into their hands. Stick with it.
Having been through the mill myself just stick with it. Have you thought why its been lost so many times? Obviously the CO knows your right but wont knock a fellow Sandhurst buddy down.
Dig your heels in, get EVERYTHING in writing (no verbal crap) and know that you are doing the system justice as well as yourself.
If you have submitted your redress in writing, then it stands until you have either withdrawn it in writing, or received the redress and confirmed it in writing.
Write to your CO stating your dissatisfaction and that you require an update. Make sure you keep it polite and stick to facts. Tell him you are keeping a record of events and that you wish a speedy resolution. It is important to write as it keep a formal record for all parties.
You can change your advising officer as well. Again formally tell your CO in writing.
Good luck !
A couple of points:
You have an absolute right to keep the redress going; do not be put off by pressure being brought to bear.
If your CO cannot or is unwilling to grant the redress then it must be passed to the next level of command without delay.
Keep to the facts of the redress do not allow yourself to get involved with consideration of the CO's position on what might or might not be his relationship with the OC in question. If you start to discuss such issues you may find yourself committing slander or a military offence. I know it may be difficult but keep the emotion out of your situation - step back and keep it objective. If you have a strong case - worry not your redress will be granted.
Lastly I do not know which chain of command you are in. All redresses are entered on a central database to give the chain of command an overview and alert staff officers to potential problems. You might consider giving the G1 staff at Div (or equivalent) to see if the redress has been made known to them (alternatively ask your advising officer to do it for you - if you do not trust him/her get him/her to do it in front of you). If as you suspect, the CO is sitting on the redress then this will alert the chain of command to the problem. If this fails demand a case conference be held at Div (or equivalent). This will then involve you, your advising officer and G1 staffs (and sometimes MS Staffs) - a record will be written and sent to you - more importantly it will be briefed to the GOC and act as a catalyst for someone to pull their finger out.
You might find that the CO is not deliberately trying to cover things up. It is my experience that very few really understand the procedures to be followed after submission of a redress.
Do not be afraid of exercising your rights and involving G1/MS staff. They are generally on side particularly if it is obvious that there is a genuine wrong to be righted.
Shandy, get your solicitor to ask for copy's of the letters of receipt that your Chain Of Command should have. If your claiming you never withdrew your redress then put it to your case officer that your unit it telling porkys. The unit is supposed to Fax a copy of the redress as soon as they receive it to AAW, what ever the complaint.
If your complaint is not clear then your unit commander would have put this in a written letter to you, explaining why it was returned to you, setting out what needed to be done. Again if your unit is making this claim and it is not true and they cannot produce the said written letters from you or themselves then depending on the severity of the case in litigation terms your unit Commander could be in some dodo as this point alone would undermine the redress process and also give weight to your complaint, if you ended up in an ET court or worse High Court
Stick to your guns don't waver and jack it in as the stalling game is what most company's with internal redress procedures do. if you end up trying to take your employer to court jacking in the redress before final conclusion by persons higher up the food chain can effect your case.
There's a guy called Tom Reah a hoofing solicitor that likes to get stuck if your not happy with the one you have PM me for his Contact Details
Now that your Div HQ is involved I would not expect to see any more avoidable delay - they will hold regular meetings to discuss the progress or otherwise of a case. Keep us informed of the outcome - it will be interesting to see how this goes. As to why the CO would be claiming you had withdrawn it who knows. As I said in my earlier post I doubt very much whether it is a deliberate act on his part - more likely the Adjutant has cocked it up.
Keep going - sounds like they have something to hide....
I just wonder whether you need a solicitor. The last thing you want to do IMHO is to link the success of the redress with the solicitor. Why pay out money unless you have to !
Get the redress. The beauty of the system is that the CO must come back to you and this is irrespective of a solictor. Once you get it, then seek the solicitors advice.
Just a thought............
OK - take your point but just be careful as I am sure you are - that they do not charge you a fortune. Good luck !
Sorry, I've come into this thread late, but it strikes me that your Assisting Officer has been less than helpful. He/She has a responsibility to ensure your redress is framed correctly and to badger the chain of command if there is significant delay.I suggest that if he/she is failing to do this you need to request a replacement.
A Receiving Officer must acknowledge in writing receipt of a Formal Complaint and should give an indication of how long the investigation will take and when he will formally respond in writing.
The target time for investigation of complaints is 30 days. A Receiving Officer should have the good manners to inform you if the investigation is likely to exceed this time and give you an indication of how long it will take.
If I have repeated advice already given then I apologise, but the process of investigating Formal Complaints is relatively straight forward. Your chain of command must communicate with you in writing.
I hope you see your Complaint through.
Sorry to put a downer on this shandyswiller but you should read the posts here,
the redress is not exactly a trusted system and were delay is a worry here is a flavour. Remember what neanderthal commented on
"The target time for investigation of complaints is 30 days. A Receiving Officer should have the good manners to inform you if the investigation is likely to exceed this time and give you an indication of how long it will take".
now read this PQ only last month
Army (Redress of Grievance Cases)
Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many army redress of grievance cases have been submitted in the last five years; and how many are still pending after three years. 
28 Apr 2004 : Column 992W
Mr. Caplin: Between 1 April 1999 and 31 March 2004, some 1,135 formal complaints were submitted within the Army. As at 31 March 2004, of the complaints submitted before 1 April 2001, 18 cases are still unresolved.
Mr. Keetch: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the reasons are for the delays of over three years of army redress cases; and if he will make a statement. 
Mr. Caplin: All complainants have the right to take their complaint, through a series of levels in the chain of command, to the Army Board (as the Defence Council). Officers have the further opportunity to petition the Crown.
A relatively small number of redress cases remain unresolved after more than three years. This is usually because of the need to exchange detailed case papers with the complainant, prior to the redress being heard, or because the cases concern complex legal issues, which can take a considerable time to resolve. Additionally, if a complainant submits a case to an employment tribunal or civil court case it is normal practice for the Army to suspend its consideration until these bodies have reached a conclusion.
but do not give up, as that is what your unit headshed will want, if your complaint is not very palatable for them
Mr Paul Keetch (Hereford): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, purusant to his Answer of 28th April, Official Report, column 992W, on Army (Redress of Grievances), how many soldiers who submitted a redress since 1997 made complaints of bullying of the 18 cases outstanding since April 2001; how many are complaints involving alleged bullying; and if he will make a statement.
Mr Paul Keetch (Hereford): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence, how many (a) soldiers and (b) officers have been (i) charged and (ii) disciplined for (A) bullying offences and (B) failing to investigate allegations of bullying since 1997; and if he will make a statement
LET MY GUESS THIS ONE ........erm.......NONE
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