Wireless network - security

#1
Situtation is thus:- live in shared house at the moment and the 'master' PC (actually an Apple) that governs the wireless network and had the router attached, is someone elses.

It is secure as far as the outside world is concerned... atleast as secure as needs be. That isnt the issue.

We dont share files, resources or printers - merely the wireless connection.

With this passing through (well sort of - you know what I mean) someone else's machine - can they see what I do, what sites I visit, what I type on those sites, etc.... and is the same for using any of the MSN messenger type programmes?

If it's a case that they could do it and find out all this stuff if they were a bit of a techy wizard and installed some programmes etc - then I am not worried, just dont want them to be able to click a folder and see my whole web history and typing as easily as all that.

God, want to be able to occasionally stumble upon MILFS Go Wild without facing the giggles over breakfast!! :thumright:
 
#2
Pompey, it is possible for them to read such things as MSN conversations and look at web history. Running a little program called ethereal can write all of this stuff off to disk for reading later.

So get off Ian Huntley's nonce porn site and stop pretending you're a 12 year old boy chatting up little chicks on MSN. ;)
 
#3
Depends on how the network is secured and the level of encryption used. A simple man in the middle style attack using a sniffer would glean loads of information. One of you mates isn't just reading the logs off the router are they ?
 
#5
I dont think they are reading/logging - they have no real reason to.....


but it would just make me more relaxed if I knew for sure whether they could if they so wished - and how I could go about preventing it.....

if I use an anonymous proxy then surely the wireless router will just see me visit the proxy site, any further activity is via the proxies router and so wouldnt show up...??


not sure how to shield and of the online chat thingies though - occasionally chat to the ex on there and it strays into chat of the mildly salacious variety, which I wouldnt want haunting me over breakfast either.
 
#6
Pompey

Bottom line is that NOTHING is secure on a network if you don't control it. If you share a connection with someone else and they control the network then short of encrypting everything you do over VPN clients etc If they really want to look at you surfing Arrse or Milf and they have the technical skill, they can.
 
#7
Can you describe you exact set up please? This will allow us to give you better advice, ie:

Adsl presentation > USB Modem > MAC > Shared www connection via wireless router

or

Adsl presentation > Wireless modem/router >> Mac >> Wireless PCs
 
#8
Gremlin said:
Can you describe you exact set up please? This will allow us to give you better advice, ie:

Adsl presentation > USB Modem > MAC > Shared www connection via wireless router

or

Adsl presentation > Wireless modem/router >> Mac >> Wireless PCs
Havent the faintest idea old chap, to be honest - havent been involved with the master Mac at all.... I just open my laptop and connect, et voila....

It is all done via Orange broadband and the router set-up is there Livebox..... if that is any help.. and here is the page at Orange that shows how it should be set-up.

http://tinyurl.com/3xo7z4

so that can help anyone shed light on things, so much the better.
 
#9
I don't see why it has to go through the Mac at all...

In any case, you should have something similar to 'Wireless Separation' on the router setup:

Wireless Isolation

If Enabled, the Wireless Stations will be hidden from each other, and will not be able to communicate with each other. For normal situations, this setting should be left at the default value of Disabled.

msr
 
#10
msr said:
I don't see why it has to go through the Mac at all...

In any case, you should have something similar to 'Wireless Separation' on the router setup:
Can follow that and now that I think about it more - I think my 'through the Mac' phrase was a touch misleading....

The Mac is connected the Livebox, and I believe the Mac is permanently on - certainly the Livebox is anyway....obviously enough. I may jsut be connecting direct to the Livebox/router....

I cant dink about on their Mac to alter the settings or see how they are set-up.
 
#11
Wireless networks are not secure.

WEP can be cracked in under 3 hours very very easily using readily available & free software.

Ethereal is a packet analyser tool. You would need another piece of software in order to 'suck' the packets in. If someone did use those two pieces of software (which I should remind posters would be ILLEGAL under various communications acts in the UK if you were caught), they would see all of your traffic including passwords, sites visited, msn convos etc etc.
 
#12
the_matelot said:
Wireless networks are not secure.

WEP can be cracked in under 3 hours very very easily using readily available & free software.

Ethereal is a packet analyser tool. You would need another piece of software in order to 'suck' the packets in. If someone did use those two pieces of software (which I should remind posters would be ILLEGAL under various communications acts in the UK if you were caught), they would see all of your traffic including passwords, sites visited, msn convos etc etc.
Yeah - am not worried about all that.....

I try to limit use of wireless for any 'important stuff' such as online banking and not use it for that at all if possible.....

I know that wireless can be broken into - as it were - and this uses WPA rather than WEP,.... but that is irrelevant.


I am not concerned that my flatmate is a secret computer hacker and can break into my transmissions with a bit of techno-jiggery-pokery.... am only asking...

a) as an average, not too techy, computer user (them) is it as easy for them to 'see' what I am doing, as just clicking to open a folder or would they have to be more pro-active in going about it....

and

b) what can I (as a slightly more techy but not used to wireless)do to prevent it if a) is indeed the case and all they need to do is click their mouse a few times.
 
#13
Pompey_Jock said:
the_matelot said:
Wireless networks are not secure.

WEP can be cracked in under 3 hours very very easily using readily available & free software.

Ethereal is a packet analyser tool. You would need another piece of software in order to 'suck' the packets in. If someone did use those two pieces of software (which I should remind posters would be ILLEGAL under various communications acts in the UK if you were caught), they would see all of your traffic including passwords, sites visited, msn convos etc etc.
Yeah - am not worried about all that.....

I try to limit use of wireless for any 'important stuff' such as online banking and not use it for that at all if possible.....

I know that wireless can be broken into - as it were - and this uses WPA rather than WEP,.... but that is irrelevant.


I am not concerned that my flatmate is a secret computer hacker and can break into my transmissions with a bit of techno-jiggery-pokery.... am only asking...

a) as an average, not too techy, computer user (them) is it as easy for them to 'see' what I am doing, as just clicking to open a folder or would they have to be more pro-active in going about it....

and

b) what can I (as a slightly more techy but not used to wireless)do to prevent it if a) is indeed the case and all they need to do is click their mouse a few times.
a) they would have to be a bit more proactive than that.

b) use tor or freeenode

msr
 
#14
The answer to a is no so the answer to b doesn't matter.
 
#15
Baldrick66 said:
Pompey

Bottom line is that NOTHING is secure on a network if you don't control it. If you share a connection with someone else and they control the network then short of encrypting everything you do over VPN clients etc If they really want to look at you surfing Arrse or Milf and they have the technical skill, they can.
I'm with Baldrick on this one. You dont control the network, so have no idea of the amount of logging that goes on. ISPs often keep logs of sites visited too and in some instances these may be available to the bill payer via a user portal. It would be very easy to set up a log of sites visited on a shared connection, router logs being one such way as mentioned before. Your proxy idea does shield a certain amount of this but you need to subscribe to a service usually as free proxies are very limited. If they get a bit more techy they can look at your traffic too.

The wireless security (or otherwise) is one issue, but it really boils down to how much do you trust your landlord?
 
#16
msr said:
Pompey_Jock said:
the_matelot said:
Wireless networks are not secure.

WEP can be cracked in under 3 hours very very easily using readily available & free software.

Ethereal is a packet analyser tool. You would need another piece of software in order to 'suck' the packets in. If someone did use those two pieces of software (which I should remind posters would be ILLEGAL under various communications acts in the UK if you were caught), they would see all of your traffic including passwords, sites visited, msn convos etc etc.
Yeah - am not worried about all that.....

I try to limit use of wireless for any 'important stuff' such as online banking and not use it for that at all if possible.....

I know that wireless can be broken into - as it were - and this uses WPA rather than WEP,.... but that is irrelevant.


I am not concerned that my flatmate is a secret computer hacker and can break into my transmissions with a bit of techno-jiggery-pokery.... am only asking...

a) as an average, not too techy, computer user (them) is it as easy for them to 'see' what I am doing, as just clicking to open a folder or would they have to be more pro-active in going about it....

and

b) what can I (as a slightly more techy but not used to wireless)do to prevent it if a) is indeed the case and all they need to do is click their mouse a few times.
a) they would have to be a bit more proactive than that.

b) use tor or freeenode

msr

TOR would only be benefical beyond the boundary of the network that you are on. It only works once you have contacted the TOR server and to do so you have to go through the network you would be currently on. Packet Sniffing, etc on home network wouldnt be effected by TOR unfortunately
 
#17
sceptic said:
The wireless security (or otherwise) is one issue, but it really boils down to how much do you trust your landlord?
Trust in that way is not an issue - She is a really nice girl and I dont think misuse of data is a problem....

would just rather that the occasional viewing of Girls Gone Wild, or MILFs gone Wild, or some semi-salacious net chat with the ex doesnt come up to haunt me over breaskfast some weekend.

that's more what I was concerned about.
 
#18
PJ

If thats all you're worried about and you land lady isn't that techie I wouldn't be worried. If you want to make Instant Messaging a little more secure get yourself a copy of Zone Alarm and use the instant messaging security package and get your ex to do the same. It encrypts your chat and is safe from snooping for your average user
 
#19
#20
Baldrick66 said:
PJ

If thats all you're worried about and you land lady isn't that techie I wouldn't be worried. If you want to make Instant Messaging a little more secure get yourself a copy of Zone Alarm and use the instant messaging security package and get your ex to do the same. It encrypts your chat and is safe from snooping for your average user
Well am glad we got all that sorted. Pheewww...... :thumright:
 

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