Winning hearts and minds...

#1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/2006032...CSQOrgF;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

The bomb killed Lance Corporal Miguel Terrazas from El Paso, Texas. The next day, the Marines said in a statement that Terrazas and 15 Iraqi civilians had died when gunmen attacked the convoy with small arms fire, prompting the Marines to return fire, killing eight insurgents and wounding one other.

But the details of what happened that morning in Haditha are more disturbing, disputed and horrific than the military initially reported, Time said.

According to eyewitnesses and local officials interviewed over the past 10 weeks, the civilians who died in Haditha were killed not by the roadside bomb but by the Marines themselves. They went on a rampage in the village after the attack, killing 15 unarmed Iraqis in their homes, including seven women and three children, the magazine said.
 
#2
Untill a man is placed in another's boots at the exact time of an incident there is no way he can judge the other actions...................
 
#3
Battsimm said:
Untill a man is placed in another's boots at the exact time of an incident there is no way he can judge the other actions...................
Thats not an excuse for killing unarmed civilians! (if they did, innocent until proven guilty)
 
#4
Wasn't excusing anyone's actions - merely stating that I wouldn't be judging, not being in posession of all the facts and not actually being there at the time......................

but, it's piqued my interest now, so......

It added that the available evidence did not provide conclusive proof that the Marines deliberately killed innocent people in Haditha.
 
#5
To be honest what really happened is fairly irrelevant now. The insurgents strategy of using the USMC as their recruitment agency is working well. After all, I'd stake my money on the locals and the wider Muslim world perceiving this as yet more innocents murdered by the USA. If the Marines prosecute then it's proof that the US are bloodthirsty killers, if they don't it's a whitewash and proof that the US are bloodthirsty killers.

I do have a lot of sympathy for the soldiers on the ground, it wouldn't be the first time that the locals have set up an incident designed to make the US cause civvy casualties. Their reactions to incoming are fairly predictable and you can't put down a large amount of auto weapons fire in a populated built-up area and not expect civvy casualties.
 
#8
paveway_3 said:
Any chance of a pop at the US and our Russian pal sergy is always there .
There were similar cases in Chechnya. Colonel Budanov killed Chechen lass (he got 10 years and now in the jail). He detected a photo in her house where the girl was depicted with a sniper rifle in the hands. Previous day two his soldiers were killed by unidentified sniper.

War is war. It is sometimes a dirty business.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1174649,00.html
 
#10
'...The military has classified the 15 victims in the first two houses as noncombatants. It considers the four men killed in the fourth house, as well as four youths killed by the Marines near the site of the roadside bombing, as enemy fighters. The question facing naval detectives is whether the Marines' killing of 15 noncombatants was an act of legitimate self-defense or negligent homicide....'

'....But the military stood by its initial contention—that the Iraqis had been killed by an insurgent bomb—until January when Time gave a copy of the video and witnesses' testimony to Colonel Barry Johnson, a U.S. military spokesman in Baghdad. After reviewing the evidence, Johnson passed it on to the military command, suggesting that the events of Haditha be given "a full and formal investigation."

I found the'TIME' article very interesting. The fact that originally the USMC were saying all 23 had died in a roadside bomb( and not shot) is odd. It seems that 8 were insurgents (if you take the view of the marines after the fact) and the rest Non Combattants, some of which were either children, pensioners and several female. I am not suggesting that none of these groups can never be terrorists...but it will be very hard to justify their loss to families and the local population. It is a tragedy and will just help feed the flames of anti American sentiment.

I have great sympathy for any soldier/marine on the ground that has to make quick decisions...but when one is wrong then there should be a price to pay or at least a trial/open inquiry.
 
#12
What the fück is your beef, paveway_3?
With remarks like:
paveway_3 said:
And how do you know that sergey ? you got dirty hands ?
you're doing nothing but emphasise your own inability to adapt to a changing world.

I know Sergei is sometimes provocative and straight to the point, but we should make a special effort to accommodate all aspects and views on ARRSE. Otherwise we'll just become another British mil.com (and if you've any experience of them, you'll know what I mean).

Anyway, dear Sergei, thanks for your contribution! :D :D :D :D :D

MsG
 
#13
Bugsy7 said:
What the fück is your beef, paveway_3?
With remarks like:
paveway_3 said:
And how do you know that sergey ? you got dirty hands ?
you're doing nothing but emphasise your own inability to adapt to a changing world.

I know Sergei is sometimes provocative and straight to the point, but we should make a special effort to accommodate all aspects and views on ARRSE. Otherwise we'll just become another British mil.com (and if you've any experience of them, you'll know what I mean).

Anyway, dear Sergei, thanks for your contribution! :D :D :D :D :D

MsG
Here here!

Vive la difference!
 
#15
I have a right to post on ARRSE as much as the next man , my issue is people sat in armchairs
giving the rights and wrongs of the Iraq situation . Its up for disscusion of course , but when people
just contantly post the same anti-US anti -war threads it wears a bit thin .

Most of the posters on ARRSE talk about a conflict that they could not possibly know anything about .
The USMC is a fine fighting force , i served alongside them on TELIC 1 so i do know . To come out with
comments like ''War is a dirty business'' when you have never been in one grips my sh@t .

Thats is what my ''beef'' is pal ! If however people post things based on experience and not on what they
see/ hear in the press whatever their side of the fence , well fair play .

The yanks are getting a hard time up country in Iraq , dont think for one minute us Brits would get it any
easier. I am sure US forces dont go out of their way to kill innocent civilians , however it does happen and
when the insurgents are using civvies as cover/shields to get at coaliltion forces, these very unfortunate
deaths will occur .

We are dealing with an enemy that has no concept of morals, they dont care about anybodys life , for them
to see the death of any westerners is there sole aim .If they get killed in the process , they go to allah .
We deal with Sergey and his posts . I am a soldier so you will have to put up with mine , until next month
when i go out there again . What will you be doing this summer ???????
 
#16
The term 'fog of war' applies to events in Iraq just as if it were a full-on 1938-45 type scenario. Contact reports are hardly ever a good basis for deciding what happened and it generally turns out that the side that first comes up with a even remotely believable story,is the one that gets taken into popular history. Any subsequent explanation has a hard job being seen as anything other than a manufactured excuse. In the day to day run of events, people choose to believe the story run by their own side and act accordingly. Only in a perfect world can one say that 'truth will out'. Yes - it will come out but when and who will recognise it as the truth?
 
#17
paveway_3 said:
I have a right to post on ARRSE as much as the next man , my issue is people sat in armchairs
giving the rights and wrongs of the Iraq situation . Its up for disscusion of course , but when people
just contantly post the same anti-US anti -war threads it wears a bit thin .

Most of the posters on ARRSE talk about a conflict that they could not possibly know anything about .
The USMC is a fine fighting force , i served alongside them on TELIC 1 so i do know . To come out with
comments like ''War is a dirty business'' when you have never been in one grips my sh@t .

Thats is what my ''beef'' is pal ! If however people post things based on experience and not on what they
see/ hear in the press whatever their side of the fence , well fair play .

The yanks are getting a hard time up country in Iraq , dont think for one minute us Brits would get it any
easier. I am sure US forces dont go out of their way to kill innocent civilians , however it does happen and
when the insurgents are using civvies as cover/shields to get at coaliltion forces, these very unfortunate
deaths will occur .

We are dealing with an enemy that has no concept of morals, they dont care about anybodys life , for them
to see the death of any westerners is there sole aim .If they get killed in the process , they go to allah .
We deal with Sergey and his posts . I am a soldier so you will have to put up with mine , until next month
when i go out there again . What will you be doing this summer ???????
I don't know where to start on this! So I won't bother.

Maybe it's better for the UK to have lost its Empire than have people like you to defend it!

If you can read and understand any language, you might like to start with: Donald Duck?

MsG
 
#19
Cheers for that bugsy , what is the issue ? My grammer and spelling or the situation in Iraq .
As for defending our country , well its guys like me that allow ignorant coc ks like you to do
as you please .

Sorry to go off thread by the way .
 
#20
Battsimm said:
I don't know where to start on this! So I won't bother.
Try "Well said that man"...........

Its all fair comment and in my view at least more or less correct, so, yeah, well said. BS
Imagine, it's taken the British Army some five generations to get away from the image of "jus' followin' orddazz, sah, bdaa,bdaa, bdaa", and the along come you and your muckas and spoil the picture in an instant!

Sort yourself out, man! Read a few papers, or listen to the radio now and again!

MsG
 

Latest Threads