Windrush Scandal

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
New statue in tribute to the Windrush Generation to be unveiled today at Waterloo station which is a strange place for a ship to dock.

In fairness the sculpture seems to capture the sort of moaning minnie's that seem to have arrived as part of that generation

She's got a right face on

View attachment 672094
Personally I think it's a not bad statue and public memorial of a point of change in Britain. The execution isn't great IMHO (I like statues to be realistic, not showing marks of the sculptor, but that's just my personal taste), but it's a fair point to have the Windrush Generation memorialised. If you can have memorials to animals hurt in war (!) or "The Women of WW2" hat stand (FFS) on the streets of the capital, I don't see why this topic doesn't deserve its own chunk of plinth. It means something personal to a significant sector of the population.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Personally I think it's a not bad statue and public memorial of a point of change in Britain. The execution isn't great IMHO (I like statues to be realistic, not showing marks of the sculptor, but that's just my personal taste), but it's a fair point to have the Windrush Generation memorialised. If you can have memorials to animals hurt in war (!) or "The Women of WW2" hat stand (FFS) on the streets of the capital, I don't see why this topic doesn't deserve its own chunk of plinth. It means something personal to a significant sector of the population.
And that's fine.

But there are other statues which mean something to other people and these are being attacked or their are campaigns for their removal.

We can't have it both ways.

If this is a part of our collective culture, then so is everything else.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
If this is a part of our collective culture, then so is everything else.
I agree wholeheartedly. The converse argument is, if you decry the vandalism of the Cenotaph, Churchill's monument or Colson's statue, you should also applaud the erection of the Windrush monument.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I agree wholeheartedly. The converse argument is, if you decry the vandalism of the Cenotaph, Churchill's monument or Colson's statue, you should also applaud the erection of the Windrush monument.
And you know what?

I'm all for celebrating all parts of our culture. It's important.

It's also important to point out the failings of all parts of our culture - where 'our' culture has had some interventions from outside that are wholly unacceptable.

The only culture under attack/it is acceptable to attack is the majority white one.
 
I wanted to ask a question to anyone who has detailed knowledge of the Windrush scandal.

I remember reading a fair while ago that one of the 'explanations' for the reason why some people affected by this scandal had not apparently sought a legal right to remain or full British citizenship was that their parents deliberately left their own status vague so as not to lose rights (e.g. residency, right to own property) back in the Caribbean if they ever wanted to retire back to their original home country as many in fact eventually did. The net result was that their children who stayed in the UK are now adults but never gained formal rights to live in the UK.

I also have seen reports of people who were caught in this scandal had been regular travellers back and forth to the Caribbean throughout life and seem to accidentally become regarded as sort of 'regular tourist' status.

Apologies, I haven't used the right immigration terms above but is there any truth in any of that or is that something that may have been put about by Home Office to cover for their own ineptness?
Seems unlikely They were citizens of the UK and Colonies so had the right to live/ work in the UK (until we subsequently changed the Nationality/Immigration Acts) so they had no need to change their status to anything that would impact any rights back home
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
And you know what?

I'm all for celebrating all parts of our culture. It's important.

It's also important to point out the failings of all parts of our culture - where 'our' culture has had some interventions from outside that are wholly unacceptable.

The only culture under attack/it is acceptable to attack is the majority white one.
It appears we are in furious agreement! :glomp:
 
I agree wholeheartedly. The converse argument is, if you decry the vandalism of the Cenotaph, Churchill's monument or Colson's statue, you should also applaud the erection of the Windrush monument.
so exactly What, does the Windrush monument Celebrate?That a bunch of chancers got here? The Cenotaph was built to commemorate the deaths of Millions. Churchill was a national leader, mind I ain't got a lot of time for Richard the first, some haven't for Oliver Cromwell, Maggie's Statue lost her head. The problem is not about equality or egality but what is honoured and why. I mean lets put it another way. Statues or sculptures can be commercially sourced for a particular reason or for artistic ones. I see nothing in modernist sculpture, wouldn't visit them specifically, but putting a statue up at Waterloo is merely to compete with the one at St P and at least Betjeman, odd soul that he was, made us laugh. Perhaps the English aught to commemorate Hengist and Horsa at Ebbsfleet.
 

Themanwho

LE
Book Reviewer
so exactly What, does the Windrush monument Celebrate?That a bunch of chancers got here?
Quite obviously it commemorates the arrival of a large number of Caribbeans who have become British citizens (in the main), who were invited here to make a better life for themselves and their families by filling jobs that needed filling.

The Cenotaph was built to commemorate the deaths of Millions. Churchill was a national leader, mind I ain't got a lot of time for Richard the first, some haven't for Oliver Cromwell, Maggie's Statue lost her head. The problem is not about equality or egality but what is honoured and why. I mean lets put it another way. Statues or sculptures can be commercially sourced for a particular reason or for artistic ones. I see nothing in modernist sculpture, wouldn't visit them specifically, but putting a statue up at Waterloo is merely to compete with the one at St P and at least Betjeman, odd soul that he was, made us laugh.

So you're just having a general grumble, fair enough. Quite why people have such a down on Cromwell I don't know, he won wars, killed a long haired king, biffed Parliament, beat the Dutch at sea, founded the Commonwealth and murdered the Irish wholesale: what's not to like? He was a dab hand at flicking ink blots too by all accounts.

If enough people want to commemorate the Windrush Generation, why shouldn't they? It's a fairly momentous life changing event arriving in a new country, why shouldn't those who did so and their descendants celebrate coming to our wonderful land?

Don't forget about the "Meeting Place" statue in St P, not particularly to my taste (although I quite like the friezes around the base) but many passers by seem to like it.

1655981953835.png



Perhaps the English aught to commemorate Hengist and Horsa at Ebbsfleet.

If someone wants to pay for it and gets permission, why not? Dundee has Desperate Dan after all:

1655982131187.png


And it's got to be better than the crap Banksy daubs. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean a statue shouldn't be erected.
 
Well you say that, but...

Our lass's dad came over from Dominica (not to be confused with the Dominican Republic, it's pronounced Dominica with an "eek" as her family told me) in the early 50s. He was surprised to see some of the local bad lads on the boat he came over on. They had apparently been given the choice of a prison or a one way trip to the UK.

When his brother, a policeman on the island, came over a couple of years later he confirmed that the colonial governors had a quota, which in some cases they fulfilled by emptying the local jails.
I have no doubt that happened but, the dialogue has always been "we came here to do all the dirty stuff and, do the jobs that the 'white people' didn't want to do..it always sounds better !

I know it's cliched but, a lot of my friends in London as a kid were from the West Indies, with a few Poles and, Ukrainians thrown in for good measure, a lot of them were here because their fathers fought for the Allies in WW2. they all made choices to stay.
 
New statue in tribute to the Windrush Generation to be unveiled today at Waterloo station which is a strange place for a ship to dock.

In fairness the sculpture seems to capture the sort of moaning minnie's that seem to have arrived as part of that generation

She's got a right face on

View attachment 672094
It's as fake as the Mary Seacile statue, both are only there for political reasons, to suck up to black activists demands.

Where are the statues for any white migrant groups ?
 
Quite obviously it commemorates the arrival of a large number of Caribbeans who have become British citizens (in the main), who were invited here to make a better life for themselves and their families by filling jobs that needed filling.
The Windrush wasn't invited here, that's another black history lie, (not a myth because they know it's not true,)

The government has no idea the migrants from the Carribean we're coming and had made no plans for their arrival or offered them jobs.


Following the arrival at London of the troopship Windrush in 1948, carrying about 500 Jamaican men said to be seeking work, minister of labour George saacs stated to Members of Parliament:..

"I don't know who sent these men....it is bound to result in difficulties....we can give no assurances that they can be found suitable work. I hope no encouragement will be given to others to follow them."[1]
 
It's as fake as the Mary Seacile statue, both are only there for political reasons, to suck up to black activists demands.

Where are the statues for any white migrant groups ?
Ah, the 'wonderful' Mary Seacole even now listed as a Businesswoman and nurse,when in fact she was a herbalist. Went to the Crimea to make money, looked after a few soldiers on the battlefield and suddenly, she's on a par with Flo Nightingale.

According to her memoirs, she made the journey from the Crimea to Scutari and back, on a boat in less than 24 hrs...'kin amazing.

She made the journey to confront Flo about, making her a nurse. You will no doubt have heard about,or seen the docu-drama on TV, that all the lefties were raving about !

Unfortunately...she never met Flo, there was never a meeting and, on a fast boat today, that journey will still take longer than 24 hrs.

To put her statue opposite St Thomas's Hospital is an insult to all nurses !

More politically racist shite, thought up by people who continue to think they have to prove themselves all the time.
 

Johned

War Hero
Doubtless outside the scope of this thread but when in service as a troopship was not the MT Windrush noted for catching fire? In the long lost past, I seem to have read a matelot's comment on sighting a wisp of smoke on the far horizon "Hello, here comes the Windrush!"
 
Ah, the 'wonderful' Mary Seacole even now listed as a Businesswoman and nurse,when in fact she was a herbalist. Went to the Crimea to make money, looked after a few soldiers on the battlefield and suddenly, she's on a par with Flo Nightingale.

According to her memoirs, she made the journey from the Crimea to Scutari and back, on a boat in less than 24 hrs...'kin amazing.

She made the journey to confront Flo about, making her a nurse. You will no doubt have heard about,or seen the docu-drama on TV, that all the lefties were raving about !

Unfortunately...she never met Flo, there was never a meeting and, on a fast boat today, that journey will still take longer than 24 hrs.

To put her statue opposite St Thomas's Hospital is an insult to all nurses !

More politically racist shite, thought up by people who continue to think they have to prove themselves all the time.
Seacole did in fact meet Nightingale and own book states she had nothing but upmost respect for Nightingale and she was offered all the help she wanted., black history activists invented the story about racism and being refused as a nurse because she was black, actually Seacole was mixed race and she started she did not consider herself black.

Seacole used homemade cures containing lead and mercury so she probably ended the lives of more of her " patients" than she saved.
 
Quite obviously it commemorates the arrival of a large number of Caribbeans who have become British citizens (in the main), who were invited here to make a better life for themselves and their families by filling jobs that needed filling.



So you're just having a general grumble, fair enough. Quite why people have such a down on Cromwell I don't know, he won wars, killed a long haired king, biffed Parliament, beat the Dutch at sea, founded the Commonwealth and murdered the Irish wholesale: what's not to like? He was a dab hand at flicking ink blots too by all accounts.

If enough people want to commemorate the Windrush Generation, why shouldn't they? It's a fairly momentous life changing event arriving in a new country, why shouldn't those who did so and their descendants celebrate coming to our wonderful land?

Don't forget about the "Meeting Place" statue in St P, not particularly to my taste (although I quite like the friezes around the base) but many passers by seem to like it.

View attachment 672333




If someone wants to pay for it and gets permission, why not? Dundee has Desperate Dan after all:

View attachment 672335

And it's got to be better than the crap Banksy daubs. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean a statue shouldn't be erected.
In terms of point 1 well the originals clearly were not. And no I’m not having a pop at any contributions to our society they may subsequently have made. Richard the 1st was rarely ever here and taxed us to the eyeballs together with his brother John that brought about the censure of the church. Cromwell May have won his wars but he lost his argument as per the restoration. “If enough people want to commemorate..” well if it was a private commission, but it’s not, it’s an official one paying lip service . So effectively it’s imposed. Desperate Dan is a figment of a cartoon, Hengist and Horsa were historical figures that laid the groundwork for what became England in the 4th century. Oh and I don’t rate Banksy that much either.
 

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