Will the Union see its 300th birthday?

#1
Will the Union see its 300th birthday?
Daily Telegraph Online
Link
Is the United Kingdom heading for fragmentation with the secession of Scotland from the Union, even as it prepares to celebrate its 300th anniversary next year? And if it is, should those who make up the vast bulk of its population - the English - give a damn?

The questions arise following a series of astonishing events, beginning 10 days ago when nearly 1,200 delegates packed the new Concert Hall in Perth - the biggest gathering at a political conference that Scotland has seen in recent memory - to hear Alex Salmond, the leader of the Scottish National Party, deliver his keynote address to his annual conference. His strident call for the break-up of the United Kingdom was cheered to the echo by his adoring audience.

Nothing new there, but what was surprising was what happened next. Two days later, Sir Tom Farmer, the founder of the Kwik Fit chain of exhaust and tyre depots, told the world that Scottish independence was "inevitable".

His words followed hard on the heels of the announcement by this self-same self-made man that he was donating £100,000 to the SNP's coffers to help it fight next year's elections to the Edinburgh parliament. He is not alone. Thanks to big donations from emigré Scots, the most famous of all being Sir Sean Connery, the nationalists reckon that they will have at least as much to spend next May as Labour.
 
#2
Well Yippee,
The Sots must be allowed to do their thing in life.
Their own Parliament and Exchequer.
john
Solve the Lothian question in one foul swoop.
 
#4
Bring it on - no more Labour Government. People forget that the conservatives had more votes than Labour in England at the last election - 8,111,005 to Labour's 8,043,461.

Let them set up their own mechanisms of state (Inland Revenue, DVLA etc.etc.) and bear the cost of it.

Also make those Scots who come south looking for work (there'll be a stampede to get away from draconian taxation) be subject to the same controls as Romanians.

I say all this as a half Scot (although I'd rather admit to being gay).
 
#5
Well perhaps the English should get used to being governed by another part of the United kingdom... the rest of us have had to do it for years! On a serious note the west Lothian question et al is just an excuse to get votes and is lovingly deployed by the old persons top whinging paper( the mail )at any opportunity. If you don't want Brown because of his policies don't vote for him. If its just because he is a sweaty your a bit sad.
Does your plan for scottish ethnic cleasing also include the Armed services/police/Prison service etc cos if it does you are going to have to get a lot more immigrants into the M25 corridor
 
#6
If Scotland does become independent does that mean we can fcuk off Gordon Brown???
 
#7
sandy_boots said:
Bring it on - no more Labour Government. People forget that the conservatives had more votes than Labour in England at the last election - 8,111,005 to Labour's 8,043,461.

Let them set up their own mechanisms of state (Inland Revenue, DVLA etc.etc.) and bear the cost of it.

Also make those Scots who come south looking for work (there'll be a stampede to get away from draconian taxation) be subject to the same controls as Romanians.

I say all this as a half Scot (although I'd rather admit to being gay).
A half Scot and Gay - must be from Embra!!
 
#8
It shouldn't have been a surprise, but it was for me, that the Scottish group who worked out the plans for Scottish devolution were also responsible for the plans for the break-up of England into its component regions. 'Two Jags' blindly adopted it, for reasons known only to him, but fortunately (inevitably?) it was ditched by a wiser regional electorate.
It's a sad day that, in the alphabet of countries which threaten the tranquillity and stability of England and the UK, 'S' for Scotland looms larger than most.






"...the ties which bind her (England) to the Russian Empire are formed in nature and are inviolable."
 
#9
Scotland run by a bunch swaggering muppets who can't project manage the build of their own house on time and get stiffed with a bill for ten times the original cost? Then an important bit falls down. What a success that will be.
 
#10
Seadog said:
Scotland run by a bunch swaggering muppets who can't project manage the build of their own house on time and get stiffed with a bill for ten times the original cost? Then an important bit falls down. What a success that will be.
I don't live there and I haven't for an awful long time so perhaps I'm the wrong person to comment (but this is arrse so I will :twisted: - why should I be different?)

Your statement above could easily be applied to Wembley, England is not exempt from disastrous building projects and the whole world is laughing at that baby. The country should already be sh1tting themselves about the Olympics.

Looking in from the outside it strikes me that a lot of red tape has been wiped away since devolved government, I only casually check out the politics North of the Border but they seem to get things done quicker. For instance, did you notice how quickly they implemented the 'smoking in pubs' ban? Whereas down here they dithered about blindly, firstly a partial implementation then a full one due to public pressure but not till next year. What was that all about?

I've said before that I'm a proud Brit but if the Scots go their own way who can stop them? Still, it would give you more time to concentrate on your other 'undesireables'
 
#11
knuckle dragger wrote:


On a serious note the west Lothian question et al is just an excuse to get votes and is lovingly deployed by the old persons top whinging paper( the mail )at any opportunity. If you don't want Brown because of his policies don't vote for him. If its just because he is a sweaty your a bit sad.
Actually it's not just an excuse to get votes, it's a serious Constitutional issue and was initially raised in 1979 by a Scottish MP, Tam Dalyell. He predicted that Scottish devolution would lead inevitably to a constitutional crisis and that is exactly where we're heading. Your point about Brown is the perfect example, WE didn't vote for him, he sit's for a Scottish seat and so is not answerable to an English electorate for decisions he takes affecting them! Intolerable!! :x
 

Sixty

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#12
Jaeger said:
Your point about Brown is the perfect example, WE didn't vote for him, he sit's for a Scottish seat and so is not answerable to an English electorate for decisions he takes affecting them! Intolerable!! :x
Will you do me a favour? Switch 'English for 'Scottish' and 'Brown' for 'Thatcher' and then read your post back to yourself.

If you can't see what's wrong with your post after that, you're beyond help
 
#13
Sixtyfootdoll said:
Jaeger said:
Your point about Brown is the perfect example, WE didn't vote for him, he sit's for a Scottish seat and so is not answerable to an English electorate for decisions he takes affecting them! Intolerable!! :x
Will you do me a favour? Switch 'English for 'Scottish' and 'Brown' for 'Thatcher' and then read your post back to yourself.

If you can't see what's wrong with your post after that, you're beyond help
Tell me something. Did the Scots LIKE being governed by Thacher? No they didn't. In fact they dislinked it so much, they eventually got their own parliament. Now, will the English like being governed by Broon? And if they don't, what will happen?

As for Prescott's plan for English regional assemblies, this was NuLab's plan to head off English nationalism at the pass, as it were. Fortunately the good voters of Northumbria kicked this well into touch.
 
#14
Ladies & Gents,

dress it which way you want, but it will be a disaster for both countries and the UK as a whole.

If the UK breaks into its individual parts, then we will lose the seat as a UN permanent member, our clout in the world (already damaged by T Bliar!) will be about as much as Lichenstien and we'll be dragged into a nightmare scenario of allowing radicals and ultra-left or right into power.

it is not good for anybody, especially Scotland is the SSP get in 8O
 

Sixty

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Moderator
Book Reviewer
#15
As I've said to you before Andy, I'm in favour of a separate English parliament that only votes on English matters (as are a majority of Scots as it happens: source a poll in The Scotsman that I can't find at the moment)

Reserving the UK parliament for defence/foriegn policy and those matters that effect the whole UK.

It won't happen under Labour though and we both know it.
 

Nehustan

On ROPS
On ROPs
#16
Just a thought but does political independence necessarily mean the rejection of the Crown? It doesn't need to (nor should to my mind). It is perfectly possible for complete political (i.e. Parliament) devolution without the breakdown of the UK. As I recall the Queen is half scots herself, and the Scots some of the most loyal contemporarily and historically (thinking of the reign of another Mrs Brown). It would be good to make this difference clear as so often Parliament and the Crown are presented as inseparable in this issue, they're not.


(P.S. Isn't the crown of the UK originally a Scots crown anyway? i.e. James VI/I?)
 
#18
whistler said:
Seadog said:
Scotland run by a bunch swaggering muppets who can't project manage the build of their own house on time and get stiffed with a bill for ten times the original cost? Then an important bit falls down. What a success that will be.
*snip*

Your statement above could easily be applied to Wembley, England is not exempt from disastrous building projects and the whole world is laughing at that baby. The country should already be sh1tting themselves about the Olympics.

*snip*
Yes because a corperate sponsored stadium, and a nationally tax paid parliament are exactly the same. And unless I'm mistaken I wasnt aware that Wembley was TEN TIMES over cost.

Devolution was a bad idea, its that simple. However the only way to maintain the UK in the long term now, is to give England the same rights, a parliament of its own, however that wont go down well because it means a lot less of the money will be leaving England for Scotland and Wales.

Another topic that touched on this subject well was the one about the RC Bishop saying Scottish independence was a good idea, I think some good points were made in the following debate.

Edit: Found it http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=48982.html
 
#19
Sixtyfootdoll said:
Jaeger said:
Your point about Brown is the perfect example, WE didn't vote for him, he sit's for a Scottish seat and so is not answerable to an English electorate for decisions he takes affecting them! Intolerable!! :x
Will you do me a favour? Switch 'English for 'Scottish' and 'Brown' for 'Thatcher' and then read your post back to yourself.

If you can't see what's wrong with your post after that, you're beyond help
Entirely predictable me old mate! The fact is that the sainted Margaret was PM before devolution therefore she and her Government were accountable to to the electorate of the whole of the UK for policies and decisions affecting the whole of the UK. Brown is now making extremely contentious and unpopular decisions affecting the NHS and higher education in England which are not relevant in Scotland. He is not truly answerable, is he? Also, he is voting in the House on matters affecting solely English constituencies whereas Boris Johnson (for example) can't vote on matters affecting only Scotland. Where's the fairness in that?

Devolution has led to the W.Lothian question being relevant hence my post! :wink:
 
B

Biscuits_AB

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#20
sandy_boots said:
Bring it on - no more Labour Government. People forget that the conservatives had more votes than Labour in England at the last election - 8,111,005 to Labour's 8,043,461.

Let them set up their own mechanisms of state (Inland Revenue, DVLA etc.etc.) and bear the cost of it.

Also make those Scots who come south looking for work (there'll be a stampede to get away from draconian taxation) be subject to the same controls as Romanians.

I say all this as a half Scot (although I'd rather admit to being gay).
And you more than likely are.
 

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