Will the TA/Regs be providing security at the 2012 Olympics?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Sig_Mercury, Mar 24, 2009.

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  1. Hi All,

    I've noticed that there has been some talk on the media regarding security at the 2012 Olympics. Obviously there are any number of groups out there who would like nothing more then to get some serious media coverage by attacking such a major event so to me some level of deployment is unavoidable.

    Does anyone know if anything has been decided (or is still in discussion) regarding possible TA or Regs. deployment for the event(s)? My understanding is that as it's home turf security is the responsibility of the TA, could this be any different considering the possible threat level?

    Any and all comments welcome!
  2. meridian

    meridian LE Good Egg (charities)

  3. Bottom line - no front line role. MOD has been very forward leaning in stating that armed forces will not be used in this way.

    We changed our doctrine a few years ago, and nowadays beyond some highly specialist areas such as CT and so on, we do not routinely support the civil authorities. Things like FRESCO will not happen again and the emergency services know it (they were told we are no longer their 999 service). The only exception is things like major scale flooding where an imminent threat to life is out there, or when the civil power can no longer cope. In the latter instance we help out, but send an extremely large bill for our services to the local authority. That usually stops further such requests!
  4. So if the forces do not provide cover for fire strikes who will?
  5. Other fire services.

    We're not fire fighters, and it would be wrong to use HM Forces to do a job for which we're not trained or equipped. Doing this means not supporting Ops. Fire services, and all other local authorities have had it made clear to them that we are not there to bail them out of non life-threatening situations in future.
  6. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    Whats this we you speak of? I thought you were a civvy. :roll: And where are these other Fire Services, do we have several different ones now, and maybe back up ambulances too?

    You may work at the MoD but demonstrate a distinct inability to understand the real world, which is symptomatic of civil servants at times.
  7. Ord - am serving reservist, over the last decade have been stood up several times for MACP ops.

    The problem MOD has is that we don't have the resources to bail out the local authority each time their staff go on strike. CCA 04 revisited this in the light of the various responses we'd had to do. Previously local authorities had relied on MOD and not bothered to think about their own responsibilities for an emergency. We were seen as the 999 responder for the 999 services - got a problem, call the army even though they aren't trained or equipped to deal with the problem.

    The reason we don't help anymore is simple - local authorities have been told to put their house in order and plan with neighbouring authorities. We haven't the people or resources to help out each time the local fire station goes on strike.

    The plans were drawn up by the Cabinet Office and approved with the support of all Govt departments and local authorities. Its taken some time, but we've finally got there - we're now only going to help in worst case scenarios and not worry about other problems.
  8. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    The problem with your thinking is it fails to stand up to reality, when there is no one left the Army steps in, whether they are trained or not. We're not talking about the local fire station going on strike, but major emergencies when the civil authorities cannot cope, Foot and Mouth, Fire strike, floods etc... They are the responder of last resort and will continue to be so despite doctrine.
  9. Ord - having spent a long time working in this area with the civil authorities, they are completely on message. They know we aren't available anymore and their contingency plans reflect this.

    As for the 'last resort' - we've always been available as a very last resort, but the chances of getting us means its got to be a gloucester flooding scenario when literally nothing else is available. We will not do future fire strikes though and the fire service knows this and have no plans for us to cover for them.

    You are getting too worried here - the emergency planning community has known for years that we're not really in the MACP game anymore and have been able to cope admirably. There really is nothing to worry about here.
  10. You have still not answered the question of who will stand in for the fire fighters? You claim other fire fighters, but that assumes:

    a. It is not a national strike and that some are at work.

    b. Non-striking firemen will be willing to cross piquet lines.

    c. There will be enough of them to cover their own patch as well as fill in the gaps else where.

    Part of the forces role has always been to fill in for this sort of stuff - because there is no one else.
  11. Jim,

    These plans, as with all others, won't survive first contact. The point that OS is making, correctly in my view, is that HMF will continue to play a role in MAC X, Y or Z, regardless of current HMG doctrine.
  12. Without wishing to sound patronising, the plans for a fire strike are the business of the
    fire service and Cabinet Contingencies Secretariat. I have no idea what those plans are,
    but I do know that they are not considering using the armed forces to support them. How
    they manage a strike is their business.

    I appreciate that people are making the point about the armed forces being a 'backstop' and
    they are correct. We are still available for emergency assistance in life threatening
    situations, or where the authority can't cope and all means are exhausted (such as gloucester).
    The difference is that in days gone by, the authorities didnt plan for solving these problems
    at a local level with other authorities. Instead their plans read "step 1, call armed forces,
    Step 2, let them solve problem". What has changed is that we've deliberately stepped away
    from strike breaking and supporting them, to make these authorities think about what they
    should be doing in a crisis. Things are a lot more swept up now, and what this means is
    a huge reduction in the number of times we're relied on to solve OGDs problems - there will
    always be the chance of something major ocurring, but this is more once in a decade stuff,
    rather than the regular low level assistance we used to provide.

    In a nutshell we're not here to do the dirty work of OGDs until every other resort has been
    tried and failed. This mechanism has been tried and tested over the last few years and it
    works. More importantly OGDs/local authorities get the message and are no longer planning on us being their as their default crisis plans.
  13. Ord_Sgt

    Ord_Sgt RIP

    So we agree then, when there is no one left and the civi authority implodes, the Military (lets be purple today :D ) steps up.

    But getting back on thread, don't the hooligans lead CT, so surely would be utilised for the main threat to the Olympics? Seems obvious to me, but then I would consult the SME on CT if I was involved in the security operation. But maybe I'm missing something.
  14. Everything will be fine.
    Fire Fighters from other brigades won't have a problem crossing their fellow union members picket lines.............

    Don't be silly.
  15. Ord - not going to discuss CT plans here - but broadly CT remains one of the areas that MOD provide to Govt for UK Ops.

    As for firefighting - take it with the Fire Brigade not us. We have no involvement in this area.