Will the British Armed Forces be broken?

[ugly]

With the current operational tempo,
apparent lack of support at home especially in certain high places,
increasing casualty lists,
a morally and financially bankrupt national executive,
Seemingly unclear objective for UK Forces on operations.
Will we end up like the US Army in the mid 70's with a messy withdrawal from ops, a break down in morale, terms and conditions forcing an end to careers.
Will we as apparently before rise above the mess our politicians have put us in and become a stronger wiser force.
A penny for your thoughts please, as last night I sat watching the news wondering if we would ever see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[mnairb]

Ugly, I regret to inform you that, due to economic constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel has been switched off.

 

[bluntslane]

I think it's not just the Armed Forces, mate. Could be the whole country's on it's arrse.

 

[Dollsteeth]

Yes but as its the Army some things never change, our problem has never been the Enemy to our front, rather the one behind us.

 

[Bugsy]

I believe that the British Army rightly deserves to be called the finest army in the world. Such a force will suck up the casualties, the lack of equipment and the patent indifference of the slimy politicians in charge and still valiantly strive to attain the objective. But lessons will be learned and, albeit sometimes covertly, acted upon.

The whole reckless disaster is solely down to Phoney Tony and his pompous and self-serving aspirations to be a presence on the world stage. This is the man who loftily declared that "ours was perhaps the first generation to never have to go to war", but was overwhelmed by his megalomania when he discovered that he had a whole army at his disposal and was described as "extremely excited to be a war pry minister". He of the peaceful intentions plunged the British Armed Forces into four, arguably avoidable, conflicts. He, and that slobbering alki Bush, should be put on trial as the war criminals they are.

MsG

 

[Extremist]

Ask the correct question and you may get a better answer Ugly.

"Will the Government's objective of destroying the reputation of the British Army, and the moral of it's members be completed before they leave office?"

The answer is: Damn, that was close, we nearly did!

 

[stabradop]

Things like this have happened to the Forces before, pre-1914, pre 1939, the 60's and the 90's. As long as we get these bunch of PC, twisted Stalinist vermin out of power soon we should be OK although as when Maggie came in in 79, it will take a few years to put things right.

 

[scarletto]

Someone forgets the Tories did their best to ruin the Army

 

[Bradstyley]

'Did their best to ruin the army' not at all vague, emotive terminology there then...

 

[cbgramc]

How do i put this without looking like a Labour knob(which I'm not), please don't think the Conservative Party will come in in the nick of time and save our bacon they sadly will not. When I was first posted to BAOR we had 4 Divisions and a number of Brigades and Field forces spread around the World, we were skint but had a reasonable sized Army to project our strength around the World (or so we thought). In 90/91 we deployed 2 Brigades to Saudi and for those of us left behind we witnessed the whole scale raping or the remaining Units to try and equip and man those two Brigades.

Did we learn our lessons ? Yes we did and the Tories then set out on Options for change 1,2,3 and in some Corps 4 swiftly followed by green papers , blue papers and any other colour you wish to mention further reducing the Services to the sad state we were left in with tanks turned into plows (never seen a chubham (spel) Plow) Sadly the Tories have form and I for one can see us turning into something similar to the Irish Defence Force with only a very limited deployable Force.

 

[P2000]

"Will the British armed forces be broken?"

They are in sever danger of being so, and not just in the short term. There is a very real risk that the Government, by refusing to provide the resources needed to meet the commitments placed on the forces, is going to create a situation where crucial capabilities will be lost, and be irreplaceable within a generation, if ever.

 

[stabradop]

A lot of armies did massive cuts in one way or the other after the end of the cold war. The yanks did a massive cutback but it seems they did it properly and mothballed equipment rather than flogging it and didn't contract out so much.

 

[FORMER_FYRDMAN]

How do i put this without looking like a Labour knob(which I'm not), please don't think the Conservative Party will come in in the nick of time and save our bacon they sadly will not. When I was first posted to BAOR we had 4 Divisions and a number of Brigades and Field forces spread around the World, we were skint but had a reasonable sized Army to project our strength around the World (or so we thought). In 90/91 we deployed 2 Brigades to Saudi and for those of us left behind we witnessed the whole scale raping or the remaining Units to try and equip and man those two Brigades.

Did we learn our lessons ? Yes we did and the Tories then set out on Options for change 1,2,3 and in some Corps 4 swiftly followed by green papers , blue papers and any other colour you wish to mention further reducing the Services to the sad state we were left in with tanks turned into plows (never seen a chubham (spel) Plow) Sadly the Tories have form and I for one can see us turning into something similar to the Irish Defence Force with only a very limited deployable Force.

It's not the size of the Army per se that's doing the damage, it's the over-commitment to operations by a vainglorious government that seems careless of the casualty figures and will not provide the necessary money, resources, leadership or moral support.

For this reason, whilst the Tories were certainly keen to cash the peace dividend and reduce the size and capabilities of our Armed Forces, there is no parallel between their activities and what Labour has done this time.

I believe that the Army will bounce back because it always does and it has the necessary high quality personnel to do so, but it needs to become politically smarter and more astute in fighting its corner. In my view, 1982-91 was the golden period and it's no coincidence that, since the end of the Cold War, the Army has struggled to articulate its role clearly and has perhaps been too willing to please its political masters as a result.

 

[lsquared]

I agree with the poster who said we are paying a heavy price - in blood - for the 'spiv' Bliar's vanity and ego.

This government have done their utmost to destroy any vistage of history or tradition in the name of 'modernisation'.

They have levelled DOWNWARDS almost everything they touched.

They have ruined education and allowed the NHS to become a disgrace.

They have perfected the practice of the politics of envy, dogma, spite and malice.

They have ruined the Armed Forces by the application of a tourniquet to the garotte of financial starvation and irresponsibility.

They have politicised the upper reaches of the police and the civil service to such an extent that neither is now trusted except to toe the 'party line'.

The only thing that have yet to destroy is the monarchy - although there have been some cowardly attempts!

The Army is far from broken - the most important component, the soldier, will never be broken, whether the threat is Napoleon, the Kaiser, Hitler, Bliar, Mandelson or Brown.

I have however, little confidence that things will change under the Tories. I remember well Heseltine, King and Portillo - all had their little 'dig' at destruction.

 

[cbgramc]

I agree that the quality of the Army has most definitely improved over that last few years and I am immensely proud of them. The point I was making was the Tories are not the Armies friends and you can only piss with the cock you have and if the Tories had left the Army in good order when they left power it would now not be as bad . I also think that Labour have done nothing to rectify the situation

 

[tomthetinker]

By and large soldiers don't vote Labour; if they did the army would now be a job creation scheme with as many new INF BNs as could be recruited.

Because it's a well known fact that soldiers are nasty brutish rightwingers; skinheads who go on NF marches at the weekend or chinless wonders who sit up swigging Port and torturing foxes, Labour will be happy to see the army broken and humiliated. That achieved, they can be emasculated and 'politically corrected' in much the same way that the Police Force (sorry...Police Service) has been.

I Doubt if the Tories will be much more generous with HMF, but the barely veiled suspicion, contempt and abject failure to understand military issues that are the hallmark of Labour, will at least be absent.

If Labour win again they will break the Army and move rapidly towards an EU Defense Force. Who can say what the consequences of such an attempt might be........

 

[Cuddles]

The whole history of the British Army has been one of peaks and troughs in terms of professionalism. Crimea to Khartoum, then Khartoum to South Africa...there was always an environmental factor promoting or debilitating our capability...it was the same through the C20th and this is just another evolutionary spiral. It is unfortunately taking place at the confluence of bad politics, inefficient administration, economic hardship and globally incarnated threats.

Don't worry, keep calm and carry on...