WikiLeaks cables expose Afghan and US contempt for British military

Discussion in 'Afghanistan' started by Bloodloss, Dec 3, 2010.

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  1. Link to story.

    Pretty sickening how little the Afghans and the Americans appreciate the sacrifices our troops have made to secure that country - constantly criticising the UK and treating us like crap whilst naturally pumping billions into "allies" like Israel and Pakistan who do nothing for the US.
  2. We should leave the sceptics to their own local wars. Best thing Wilson did was keep us out of Vietnam - Afghan will go shit-shaped soon enough. Enough good people have died there.
  3. Oh ****ing get over yourself. We went in there horribly underfunded/underequipped and undermanned, had some major cock ups in how we set up running ourselves such as short tour syndrome, and the muddle of how the FO and foreign aid was supposed to be organised and synchronised didn't help either. Whilst the military has done bloody well with the resources and limitations it was given you can't exactly argue that we've been able to come even close to meeting all of our objectives in the south or that its been a roaring success.

    As for the aid so what? Israel is actually still surrounded by some rather hostile folks and a lot of the aid comes in the form of or is spent on US goods so it's in a large part domestic subsidies, Pakistan they're giving them money to try and keep it a semi-functional country to keep it propped up. The UK is the sixth largest economy in the world we should be more than able to fund our own defence spending, the problem is the disconnect between the level of funding and what governments (the last one especially) expect to be able to do with the armed forces. We need to either increase funding to meet our commitments or reduce our commitments to the level of our funding but that's an argument for another time.
  4. My god a voice of reason!

    I knew when I was watching the news this morning that there would be faux outrage over this.

    The bottom line is that we have done pretty much **** all in Afghanistan.

    This is in no way a put-down on the guys who have been out there and done the job (I have been there on 3 separate tours), we still have one of the best Armed Forces in the world. We have done what we can with what we have.

    We (the Govt. actually) grossly underestimated the task in Helmand and in Herrick 4 16 AA Bde held on by the skin of their teeth.

    We simply did not have the forces to handle the job in terms of numbers. We were trying to do a Div job with a single understrength Bde. It was never going to work.

    If anyone is surprised by this wikileak they need to have a look at themselves the Americans have basically been telling us that we haven't been up to the job for about 2 years by gradually taking more and more responsibility off of us and leaving us with less and less of an AOR.
  5. Brick - agree with you there.
    Bit suprised about Govnr Mangal though.....but I guess it just goes to show........ :(
    The (last) British Govt was so tied up around the internal (home) politics and paid little attention to the requirement for men on the ground, and It's too late now. WTF makes a politician (no doubt on the advice from the constrained top brass) in his comfy office in Whitehall put a cap at "ooooh, shall we say 9,500....that sounds like a good figure." This country has clearly demonstrated in both Iraq and Afghanistan, that it has the political (and empirical?) aspirations but not the stomach for the fight, taking on far too much than they could chew in Basra and Helmand. Let's face it, with all the cuts in the past and the present, we should be more realistic about our Large Scale military capabilities in both the short and long term.
  6. Correct, our government and the MoD are idiotic and our troops are under-equipped and over-stretched. We haven't met all our objectives as well as we'd have liked, but neither have the Americans. How you can be fine with how the Afghans and Americans are disrespecting us after 345 of our troops have sacrificed their lives when we could've easily just went "nah you guys can do all the work yourselves, see ya!" is beyond me though.

    Well, the point is that Israel does nothing for the US (other than give arms to their enemies and rivals, disrespect their politicians, never listen to them, spy on them, etc - great ally) whereas the UK has soldiers laying down lives when it could leave the US to do it all. Just a quick example of how we get treated in comparison to Israel would be how we struggled for years to get the ability to have the source code for the F-35s and install our own stuff etc, only to be ignored. What happened when Israel wanted to do the same? They got it, whilst we didn't. Just to re-iterate: we, the only tier 1 partners of the JSF programme, did not get access to the source code. Israel, who was not a partner at all and had little to do with it, got complete access. They also will receive their F-35s before anyone else. This is the 'special relationsihp' between the US and UK. Recently, on top of the $3,000,000,000 it gets every year from the US for doing nothing (Despite it easily being able to fund its military), it has received a further 20 F-35s for free for merely temporarily halting its building of settlements on land that doesn't belong to them. Israel is currently drawing up shopping lists for every time they halt these settlements for a few months - who knows how much they will get off the US in the future? Meanwhile, the US complains and whines at the UK for cutting its military in tough financial times and criticises their performance, offering nothing. As for Pakistan, their intelligence services enjoy funding the Taliban and no matter how many free F-16s the US gives them, it doesn't change a thing.
  7. Apparently Julian Assange is not exactly saintly - especially in his dealings with young women. But they may be lying?
  8. Nowt to do with the thread really - but do women really want a "saint" in bed? (Sir Roger Moore-type Saint excepted).
  9. Thanks for the link bloodloss

    I've never been to Afghanistan so forgive my ignorance because I might need something spelled out to me :

    According to wikileaks Karzai the UK rejected his " tribal solution " but surely one of the major problems of the British operation in the region is a tribal solution ? ie I've been hearing for the lst couple of years when the British hand over a swept town or village to tribal elders to defend the taliban are back in control there within a month without a single shot beng fired . Is this true ?

    In some ways you might expect Karzai and his government to whine and whimper about security because you're left with the feeling he'd rather NATO wasn't there . What makes these leaks hurtful though is the criticism coming from the Yanks
  10. Harold Wilson only kept conventional UK forces out of Vietnam. He provided covert aid, arms supplies, and the SAS, etc, from Malaya to fight in South Vietnam.
  11. Maybe we should do the same with Afghan.
  12. If that was done, instead of invasion of Afghanistan in 2001, a punitive military expedition, we'd be better off. Go in, blast the enemy forces to hell, in like 1 6 month operation, leave immediately after with columns of smoke rising from the destroyed target areas.

    But of course, the politicians don't want to do that. They want to impose 'regime change' and tell foreigners about human rights and how to collect taxes and flaunt secularism.

    Literally the only successful campaign in Afghanistan was a punitive military expedition by the British in 1878. All other wars were invasions, and each failed. From British, Alexander the Great, Russians, etc.
  13. It was this particular thread that I searched for and joined this site for.

    I read about this in the Guardian and was disturbed - especially by the comments. Now, I realize the Guardian is left-wing in nature, but, I guess the old stereotype of your average American citizen being more supportive of the armed forces than your average citizen across the Atlantic is true - because I am, in fact, a socially left-leaning American from New York. However, the level of disparagement in the posts towards the US/UK alliance, US soldiers and even UK soldiers was sickening to me.

    I do understand the patriotic disgust that the posters were showing towards the Afghani government - the, after all, are simply the least odious bunch of thieves we could find in that country - and to have that corrupt bunch disparaging anyone is ridiculous. But there were tons of "Well, if the Yanks don't appreciate us, then **** them" comments.

    I don't know why it's important for me to post this, because obviously means nothing in the scheme of this but I wanted to make a few points:

    One - the headline is absolutely disgusting and a lie. In no way did the American commander in the leaked cable show "contempt" for the UK military. Anyone who even remotely keeps up on these things knows that the UK forces are among the best in the world - and that any lack of capability comes from the lack of political will and, consequently, *funding from the UK government. So yes, the UK soldiers are not able to do the same missions that the US groups can, because of political and funding issues - this causes exasperation in US military circles. See the recent UK cuts, necessary maybe, however, deeply troubling to US commanders who rely on them.

    Two - All I read about in the Guardian is how "America" (all 300 million of us I guess) have no idea about the US/UK alliance, have never heard of the "special relationship" are ungrateful, etc. I can only say this from my perspective, but - this is complete, absolute *bullshit. In no way am I saying that on a political and governmental level the US/UK alliance hasn't been allowed to drift and needs serious attention, but, yes, your average, everyday, American (again, at least in the North East of the country) is extremely *well aware of UK sacrifices to NATO, is *well aware of the term "special relationship" as its mentioned whenever the UK comes up *and, in general, contrary to what you may read in UK opinion pieces, your average American is *extremely well-disposed and respectful of the British. In fact, if anything, they're often shocked that the feeling isn't always mutual as Anti-Americanism is rife in UK media.

    In closing, all the post really is, is a personal* thank you and expression of gratitude towards UK military for their service on behalf of our collective interests. We can debate politically, effectiveness, even morally, about recent *political decisions about where and how our troops have been deployed, but that in no* way takes away from the supreme sacrifices you all endure to do your jobs where and when you're sent even up to and including the ultimate sacrifice. This American, and more importantly *far more than you're told in your media are truly thankful and wish you all happy holidays.
  14. jim24

    jim24 Book Reviewer