Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Dirt_Diver, May 13, 2003.

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  1. Dirt_Diver

    Dirt_Diver LE Moderator

    After Returning from OP TELIC last week, I like most of the guys who are back have gone on some much needed leave. Last night, in one of the many pubs in my home town, me and a few civvie mates are enjoyng a quiet pint (as yer do), last orders are called and in walks "miss x" and her other half (a complete dope head) and they come to sit with us. I've known miss x for a few years and we've never really got along. she knew i was in the gulf and just starts having a go at me and all of us that were there, saying things like we deliberetly killed civvies and enjoyed it and how we were guilty of every war crime going (yes she's a Uni student). the lads i was drinking with didn't know where to look or what to say. I was and still am fuming. I'd been pretty quiet about being on OP TELIC, my mates knew i was there and surprisingly for them when they first saw me back said nothing but "welcome home, mate" and bought me a beer.
    miss x just spent the thankfuly short time slagging us all off.
    but the thing that really gripped my sh*t last night was when she had a go at the lads who lost their lives, saying how happy she was when the news came through about the deaths. How I never chinned the bitch I'll never know. and what did i do? I walked away like an idiot. hopefuly next time i see her i won't be as restrained.
    I've never been so wound up in my life, and i feel ashamed that i didn't chin miss x. We live and leardn. A friend of mine owns a gym and has given me a free run of the place while i'm back, i'll go take my anger out on the weights. probably all i'm good for.
  2. Papa, you did exactly the right thing, you kept your dignity  and your temper and in so doing, demonstrated your moral superiority. She, however, will come back in her next life as someone on the wrong side of a dictator with a big moustache.............(and you will go from this to a land of doe-eyed houris!!!)

    Well done you (I would have bought you a drink!!)
  3. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    NO, you walked away like a professional soldier with your dignity intact. Smacking her would have just evidenced to her, and others, that you are unrestrained.

    What you did was to establish that even in the face of extreme provocation you, like every other soldier, could have exercised your ability to harm and injur BUT rather than do that you show restraint and professionalism. When someone accuses you of killing innocent civilians in a blood lust, then you point out that surely given the level of provocation you are currently being subjected to that by the same logic you would be ripping the woman's throat out, but you're not doing it now just as you didn't do it then.

    Everyone else sat round you will have thought the same as you do. I underastand your anger, but at the end of the day she's a nothing so why treat her comments with anything other than the utter contempt that they deserve? There will always be lunatics like this in the world, you know you did your job in a fit and proper manner and that is all that should count.

    An argument that is often overlooked by "pacifists" is that St Thomas Aquinas addressed the issue quite well in the 12th century. He argued that warfare has 2 types of justice, justice OF war (Jus a bello) which relates to the decision to engage in hostility by our political masters and the moral responsibility that carries and of which you are absolved, and justice IN war (jus a bellum) which relates to the individual conduct of the commander and each soldier. Aquinas said that if the decision is made to fight and you are a soldier then you as an individual are absolved of all of the moral responsibility for this decision if you didn't contribute towards it being made. He aslso describes the role of the merciful soldier as a "just and honourable" calling when you fight for the protection of the innocent. Where you as a soldier are concerned is your actions in war. Show mercy, compassion, and act with dignity you have nothing to hold on your conscience.

    Let her ignorance be her problem, nothing that you say or do will change her bigotted and closed mind, so why try and reason with the un-reasonable?

    If all else fails, the 1* Gen commanding the 1st US Marine Div came out with the following a few weeks ago:

  4. Yes you did exactly the right thing, and in doing so demonstrated exactly the sort of discipline and restraint that makes the British Army so effective in both warfighting and other operations.  Look at how well our troops are doing in Basra post war compared to the Yanks further north.

    You should be proud of yourself for serving, for being part of Op TELIC and for not chinning this little witch - which would have been a victory for her (albeit when she came out of hospital ;D ;D ;D)
  5. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Welcome back buddy.  In my experience life is full of a lot of different people, a large proportion of which aren't worth knowing.  With regards to this female, don't worry about her or her type.  She'll amount to little and never leave her mark on the world, where as you, for Queen and country have helped free millions of Iraqi's from a evil despot.  Something that you should take pride in for the rest of your life, and no matter where time will take you, can look back on that action in the gulf, and your self restraint when you were confronted by this woman and know that you acted impeccably.  Well done.
  6. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    On the other hand, it might serve you right for getting back so quick! :D
  7. ;)Well done my son,you have behaved just like the professional you are.It is not worth losing your cool and reputation over some smackhead slag.Sometimes it requires a war to bring about a peace.By the sound of this one ,she will be worm food soon enough and good riddance.
  8. Welcome back Papa

    ....and well done, you showed the commendable discipline and restraint, the traits of the well trained BRITISH soldier. She was trying to provoke you, it failed.

    You can take pride in your actions, and no doubt, you gained the respect of your colleagues too


  9. Well done mate! I think you'll find that the remaining customers thought she was an arrse as well!

    What you could have said to embarass her was that you were quite prepared to risk your life in order that the Iraqi people,  be allowed the same 'freedom of speech' she has demonstrated with her outburst and which she apparently takes for granted.  Much like our grandfathers did during WW2, but she's probably not a history student and wouldn't have known that.

    In fact, thanks to the coalition forces, millions of Iraqi's now enjoy the freedom to demonstrate and to voice their opinions, previously denied them by the likes of Mssr Hussein & Co for over 30 years.  

    The lads who died, lost their lives trying to achieve just that, for people whom they had never met.  Causes don't come any nobler that that.

    Alternatively, you could have emptied the contents of your pint over her head....... ;)
  10. Mr Happy

    Mr Happy LE Moderator

    Indeedy, but first order a pint of diesel or cider and blackcurrent or something with cordial in - you know the stuff that really stains..  I have no experience myself.... :-[
  11. Papa,
    You did exactly the right thing.
    I hope the cow's house catches fire in the next strike; see what she thinks of the British Services then eh?
  12. Bloody hell Papa, I dont know how you kept your cool....you can take some solace in the fact that the majority of people in this country were backing the Armed Forces all the way whilst you were away. Even the peace lot still backed the guys and girls...so this thick cow is really in the minority.

    I agree with the others and feel that anybody within earshot of the whole affair will respect your actions and maybe even get you a drink next time your out!
  13. Well done for keeping your cool mate.

    Why not sit on the grudge for a few weeks, then put in an OP at her house / smack den then when she is least expecting it leap out and stick a pitchfork in her neck ;D
  14. .....or you could always take a hardline with her ;D ;D
  15. PL

    Civvies in general, mate...

    Do not have your abilities & attributes
    Do not have your bravery
    Do not have your commitment composure & compassion
    Do not have your discretion direction & diplomacy
    Do not have your experience & expertise
    Do not have your fcukin a - z

    Don't worry about it.  

    The British public is composed of people - all sorts of pricks n tits on sticks, most of whom couldn't begin to do what you do on a daily basis, let alone put themselves in harm's way without a second thought - for whatever fcuking reason.   Most civvies would cross the street rather than involve themselves with a heart-attack victim FFS, and would run like billio from a mugging or the like.   You wouldn't.   Despite her oh-so-high ideals, I doubt Miss Prissy-Knicks from University would consider mixing it with anything faintly threatening.

    For the record, I'm one of those pricks that didn't agree with why you were sent to Iraq in the first place; and I still don't agree with any of your mates, or the Yanks, being there.   I deplore the loss of a single life due to Op TELIC, but for very different reasons to Miss Prissy-Knicks from University.

    I would still buy you a beer.   In fact, you could have my whole fridegfull.   You did your job as a soldier, and good on you for it.

    Send the bitch a 5hit parcel if you like.  Otherwise, forget it mate.  She's not worth the steam it would produce.   Her opinions are not formed from concrete experience, but are the regurgitated drivellings of a few academics and a totally pampered existence.