Why were civilian deaths by the army so high during the Troubles?

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
I have two - one is an update I think. I have begun compiling a spreadsheet on selected criteria - it is huge and I will probably change the criteria as I learn more, but it will allow me to make probing summaries from the numbers - it is the defining of the criteria vis a vis the accuracy and consistency of the detail. It took the authors seven years to write it.
I believe there is a film due soon regarding Lost Lives Lost Lives showing at Queen's Film Theatre, Belfast.
Thanks, but no. I’ll give that one a miss. QFT has had a massive refit with comfortable seats, bar and coffee too.
I hope the dame doesn’t see it, she’s a big fan of the place. I’m not sure I could sit through it.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
Can you point us towards some evidence for that claim?

I see that I slightly misread the statistics, the Army and the RUC were responsible for 26% of children killed during the Troubles, off the top of my head however I think I can only recall one or two people under 16 killed by the RUC.


Somewhat different statistics here, which would indicate an even higher proportion of children's deaths attributable to the security forces.

 
The irony is that there were apparently 1400 violent deaths in Washington State alone last year.
USA Murder kings 2017

California 2022
Texas 1653
Florida 1269
Illinois 1120

Highest rate is Louisiana at 14.4/100000

Murders in DC 2018 160 up 38% on 2017 (116) the rate is 5.9/100000
 
I see that I slightly misread the statistics, the Army and the RUC were responsible for 26% of children killed during the Troubles, off the top of my head however I think I can only recall one or two people under 16 killed by the RUC.


Somewhat different statistics here, which would indicate an even higher proportion of children's deaths attributable to the security forces.

So it's over a quarter, if you add together all of Army and Police related incidents, include RTAs and include things like cot deaths that may, or may not, be a result of security force actions.
 
Many of those killed were from the same family and were killed more than once.
Yes... I read that somewhere...

...can't quite remember where but it must have been true...
 
I read a statistic only this morning that the Army were responsible for only 9% of deaths (and the VAST majority of those were terrorists) and Republican terrorists were responsible for 76%.
We obviously weren't trying hard enough. I could have upped our score if I had been issued real bullets instead of having to shoot people with those funny plastic ones...
 
We obviously weren't trying hard enough. I could have upped our score if I had been issued real bullets instead of having to shoot people with those funny plastic ones...
They gave me a flame thrower.

Well I say gave, it may have been a couple of 'appropriated' spray cans of insect repellent, tape, a lighter (acquired from the officers mess) and a pair of gloves (for safety)
 
40 Regt RA ?



I stole it and the only AS nasty regt I know is 40
I was with the Workshop, Mansergh Kaserne about 1977-78 time, they were just coming back from Belfast when I got there.
 

Mike Barton

War Hero
So it's over a quarter, if you add together all of Army and Police related incidents, include RTAs and include things like cot deaths that may, or may not, be a result of security force actions.
You asked me for evidence to back up my claim, I provided two pieces.

If you can provide better statistics that refute the evidence I provided feel free to provide them.

No doubt with a link to the cot deaths you claim are included in the figures.

Tip: Don't ask for evidence if you don't like the results.
 
Winners = less killed

Losers = more killed

It's not rocket science, just the very nature of combat. In my experience of Northern Ireland there weren't many innocent by standers.
 
You asked me for evidence to back up my claim, I provided two pieces.

If you can provide better statistics that refute the evidence I provided feel free to provide them.

No doubt with a link to the cot deaths you claim are included in the figures.

Tip: Don't ask for evidence if you don't like the results.
It didn't back up your claim, it said something different. The fact those authors included children killed in RTAs and at least one cot death where the parents believe CS may have have contributed is right there in the links you provided.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
I liked it, some really good stories about the SAS swanning around the Brandywell in a yellow porsche shooting innocent volunteers.
I thought the 4wd was a nice touch, necessary for those border roads in the winter.
 
I thought the 4wd was a nice touch, necessary for those border roads in the winter.
Can't say anymore, said too much already...…..
 

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