Why Police Should Be Armed

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Phil306, Jul 19, 2010.

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  1. North Hollywood shootout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Thousands of rounds fired by suspects in HOLLYWOOD, California. Not Beruit, not Iraq, and NOT Afghanistan. And, the suspects were wearing body armor.

    Oakland: I-580 closure continues after late-night shootout - Inside Bay Area

    An incident I was involved in 2 nights ago. Armed suspect, with an AUTOMATIC weapon (yes, the press doesn't know all), again wearing body armor. By the way, 2 hours later, I was shot at by a 17 yr old with a handgun. He is now in jail.

    Arkansas Police Mourn Officers Brandon Paudert and Bill Evans, Slain by Armed Teen, Dad

    Two patrol officers, yes, regular old patrol officers, killed by a duo carrying the dreaded assault rifle. My god, an assault rifle. We should all run.

    Ladies and gentlemen, this is just THREE incident in which police officers have been ambushed, shot, and injured or killed in the US. The UK isn't much different and, its only a matter of time, before the violence of the US catches up to you.

    If you do not arm and you do not train your police officers, the first responders to such an situation, you will regret it.

    Semper Fi and good luck mates.

  2. Oh do bore off! We don't have gangs of rednecks armed to the teeth with AK-47's and M-16's storming through the streets of the UK. Even Northern Ireland at the height of the troubles had less gunfights in a week than the average US city has on a Friday night.

    I'm perfectly happy for UK cops to carry a handgun, but you're the US cop who carries more firepower on him and in his patrol car than the average 4 man Army assault team, aren't you.

    Just because the US is stupid enough to allow any loon to walk into a gunstore and buy enough assault rifles and other firearms to start a small war without checks or any requirement for a licence, (and now your towns and cities have in large parts devolved into a replica of downtown Mogadishu), doesn't mean the rest of the world will follow.
  3. Yes it it.

    SOCA state, in their 2009 assessment, '‘in reality, firearms crime is still relatively rare in the UK and accounts for 0.4% of all recorded crime’. (http://www.soca.gov.uk/about-soca/library/doc_download/54-the-united-kingdom-threat-assessment-of-organised-crime )

    With the exception of some parts of inner cities I can't see many comparrisions with the US at all.
  4. to be fair the north hollywood shootout lead to coppers running to a gunshop for heavier calibre weapons as there pistols and shotguns were'nt taking the roid addled covered in bodyarmour freaks down. Could even argue coppers need RPGS google the killdozer episode where some loonspud converted a bulldozer into a Tank and went on a spree complete with .50 calibre rifles!!!
    bet a few country sheriffs made inquirys about getting some anti tank weapons after that.
  5. Becase there are dangerous Brazilians still prowling the streets? America is totally different from here and not comparable in my eyes. in america the cops do need guns because if someone's thought of it anywhere else in the world, someone in America has probably already done it.
  6. 3, 2, 1.. and the loony is back. I was surprised that you did not carry on your rant on the other posts. Why is it that a 'US cop & Firearms instructor' (I have my doubts for even the first of these 2 claims) posts his gibberish all over a UK forces website, remind me? I, for one, am really not interested in hearing what you have to say (while again, just for the record, I support Police carrying a firearm for SELF DEFENSE).

    I went through some of your earlier posts: Your walt-status was revealed as early as 2007, where do you find the energy to still post your anti-Obama pro gun bs? Why bother? Why post here? Do you post in the US well? At least that might have some relevance to somebody somewhere... perhaps.

    on a separte note: well done Semper_Flexibilis, good summary.

    as for brighton hippy: pls dont, you make it worse. You may be right, but again, it bears little relevance to European cirrcumstances...

    Walt will now arrgue that he could have taken them down single handedly with his WP-Grandes, Grenade Launcher etc had he been presented the chance.
  7. The police certainly need routine training in firearms if only to tackle the misconceptions and ignorance which pervades the organisation, even amongst firearms officers tasked with liaising with civvy shooters. Whether they need to carry one whilst patrolling the small village of Forsakenby-in-the-Fog in rural Somerset is another question.

    Comparisons with the USA are rarely apt or helpful. Even when the US and UK had very similar firearms laws the US had something like five times the amount of firearms crime per 100,000, and there are forms of crime in the States which account for significant amounts of this crime (such as methamphetamine production and distribution) which barely exist in the UK. What is more telling is that even countries which are statistically safer than the UK such as Canada, Switzerland, Australia and some of Europe choose to routinely arm their police.
  8. In 2009 there were 360 criminal incidents involving firearms, including air rifles, in the whole UK, this includes suicide and poaching, figures from Dispatches last night Channel 4
  9. Ain't THAT the ****ing truth!

    My FEO came round to inspect my shooters when I was updated the FAC… handed him the regular wooden rifles to check off the serial numbers, yes, he was cool with them… then I handed him my AR15 - He nearly fainted with shock! 'You're not allowed to have machine guns'. :-/
  10. Why go as far as the USA ? Just check the events of the week-end in France...where cops are armed.

    Four people in the French city of Grenoble have been arrested for attempted murder after a riot in which police were fired on. The violence started on Friday night after a memorial service for a suspected armed robber shot dead during a police chase. (...) The trouble started when police pursued two men suspected of holding up the casino at Uriage-les-Bains early on Friday morning. The two men fired shots at them, police said, wounding an officer. Police returned fire, killing one of the men, Karim Boudouda.
    Mr Boudouda, 27, had three previous convictions for armed robbery.

    BBC News - Four arrests in Grenoble for attempted police murder

    About 50 travellers armed with iron bars and hatchets have rioted in the small town of Saint-Aignan in central France after police shot a man dead. (...) At Saint-Aignan, the travellers were protesting at the death of a 22-year-old man shot by police, reportedly as he tried to run down two of their officers. Prosecutors say the man failed to stop his vehicle at a checkpoint and dragged a gendarme on the bonnet for 500 metres (yards). The gendarme escaped with light injuries.

    BBC News - Travellers riot in central France after police shooting
  11. fantassin…

    Car-B-Q's and rioting are French cultural pastimes, you've been rioting and burning things in the streets since 14 July 1790.
  12. Posts by Phil306 - Is the bloke a nutter? You the public must decide.

    "…Very interesting thread. First off, I realize there are MAJOR cultural differences between the UK/US. That withstanding, I am a police officer and, my typical load out for the day is as follows:

    My primary sidearm is a Sig P226, .40 cal and I carry a total of 5 12 round magazines.
    My backup weapon is a Glock G26, 9mm and I carry a total of 3 12 round magazines.

    Also available to me, meaning in the car right next too me:

    Colt M4 with a total of 9 30 round magazines. Yes, I keep a magazine in the weapon and a round chambered at all times.
    Remington 870 12 gauge, with a total of 42 rounds. 12 slugs and 30 buckshot.

    The firearms, are in addition too: OC Spray, Taser, baton, handcuffs, and two folding knives. Not too mention, body armor, et al.

    I've been involved in three seperate officer involved shootings, the details of which are moot. However, to even THINK about going out in the streets, unarmed, is foolish. I don't go ANYWHERE, at least in the US, unarmed (and the only reason I don't carry in Europe or Canada, or anywhere else for that matter, is because its illegal). I always carry at least one gun, usually two, wherever I go. Including to walk down the street or even to go jogging.

    I realize the crime rates in the US, gun useage, etc is higher then the UK. However, the UK is growing steadily and so are crimes of violence. Not too arm your police, in my opinion, is trouble just waiting to happen. A well armed, well trained officer, can put a stop to carnage, before it occurs.…"


    "…Please remember and try to take into account the cultural differences between our two countries. They are HUGE; especially when it comes to crimes of violence. First off, I am no longer a SWAT Team Member. Been There, Done That, got the t-shirt. I am just a regular patrol officer and YES, most police departments in the United States, there regular ole patrol officers carry the dreaded "assault weapon." Of course, I am not sure what an assault weapon is; some liberal fantasy weapon made up and has caught on in general society. However, I digress. If you do a google search of police departments in the US, which officers carry rifles, then you would be truly shocked and surprised at the number which do.

    A handgun is a ballistically inferior weapon to a shotgun or rifle. Why would I go to a call for service, where someone has a gun, with just a handgun? I am taking a rifle or shotgun with me and my handgun is now my backup weapon. In the US, you always treat force with a higher level of force; not equal. That is foolish, stupid, and nieve. Moreover, it has gotten many police officers killed.

    I DO NOT carry a weapon on my hip, just for my defense. I carry it for YOUR defense. As stated, I've been in three officer involved shootings. ONE was defending my life, the other two someone elses. Again, in the US, the police are EXPECTED to protect the lives of others. Its our jobs, its our responsibilities, etc.

    A backup gun not needed? Again, foolish, nieve, and ignorant. Do you realize how many police officers have had their primary weapon taken from them? Oh, I know, you are a tough Brit and it could never happen to you. Yeah, right...I carry a backup weapon, for the time(s) I am in a fight with someone and they are trying to take my primary weapon from me. I can reach into my offhand pocket, take out my Glock, and use it as necessary. Not too mention, the MYRIAD of other possibilities: I run out of ammo in my primary, it malfunctions, et al. In MY society, NOT carrying a backup weapon can get you killed.

    I'm not attacked when jogging or walking? Your kidding me, right? Just who is then attacked? How many people out for a run, a walk in the park, etc are robbed? Are assaulted? Are raped? I hate repeating myself, however this is America. EVERYONE has a gun. I mean EVERYONE. So, you are more likily to be robbed, at gunpoint, then anything else. So, yes, when I walk to the 7-11 to get a Big Gulp I have a gun; usually two.

    Finally, you are damn straight. If I could get my department to allow me, I'd carry: An M14, LAWS Rockets, frags, WP grenades, and yes, even a few claymores. I've done open area searches for 20+ hours and wouldn't mind having a few claymores out, watching my six.

    In so far as training? This is what I do for a living. I've been a police officer since 1989. I am the primary firearms instructor for my department and other departments in my area. This is all I do. I live it, eat it, and breath it. I testify in court as use of force expert for officer involved shootings and get paid quite well for it.

    If police officers were "trigger happy," where are all the shootings now? Police officers have been carrying sidearms and shotguns since the dawn of time in this country. They haven't been shooting up the streets. If I had shot every single person I could have LEGALLY and MORALLY shot, I'd have a body count well over a 100 by now. But I don't and neither do any other officers. A rifle isn't going to change any of that.

    One final point. I suggest you really look into the ballastic capabilities of the 5.56mm round. It is more safe in an urban environment then my .40 cal Sig.…"

  13. I abstain, for me there is no clear indication, I don't judge ;-) I am the 'tough Brit' in the above post, he is a cnut alright. I am convinved he is a walt and as such we should not give him more credit by quoting his sheit.

  14. True but firing at police officers and attacking police stations in daylight is a bit of a novelty (even though a total of about 120 rounds of different calibers were fired at the police during the 2005 riots)