Why Part 3 on your CR?

Discussion in 'Royal Signals' started by SnarleyGrippler, Nov 10, 2003.

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  1. Is it just me, or are Part 3 comments on your CR completely worthless or worse, dangerous?

    Why should I have a potentially career-crippling comment made on my CR, penned by a Brigadier who doesn't know me and has based his comments on a 30 minute interview? I mean Brigadiers are obviously going to have pretty sound judgement otherwise they would be sweeping garage floors and picking up litter with the rest of the bottom feeders. They may be good but they're not that good. I mean they have even told COs to reduce grades.

    Why? :x
  2. IS Ski Geek

    IS Ski Geek War Hero Moderator

    I had part three written, when my first part was written by someone in the Royal Navy. The Second part was written by a Lt.Col from the Engineers and then the 3rd part was written from a Maj (OC) of a Armd Sig Bde after a 30 min conversation. I must admit I was quite impressed with what he wrote and subsequently came of the next promotion board.

    Not sure if it needs to be a 1 star that writes part three but surely it cant hurt unless of course he thinks you are a complete stroker. :roll:

    No offense intended.
  3. No offense taken, but that's my point entirely. I haven't actually fallen foul of a bad Part 3 but just find the system flawed. I do know of people who having been given an O have had it reduced to an A on the order of a brigadier who has met them briefly and made a wholly incorrect snap judgment.

    Who knows a soldier better than his OC and CO?

    Obviously if it just concurs with what the CO says, again it begs the question "why write it at all?"
  4. Part 3 is wrritten by someone who has a view of others of the same rank across the Arm, Corps or Bde. The aim is to provide balance and prevent over or under grading. Before part 3 is written there will have already been consultation with the 1st and/or 2nd RO. The 3rd RO normally asks the more wide ranging questions to see how an individual understands and articulates matters about his/her profession, its challenges, current issues and personal views. All in preparation for fufilling the next rank up and beyond (hopefully) !

    We all know of COs or OC who have overgraded with the best intentions but it doesn't help manning boards select the right person for promotion. Selecting the wrong man or woman can be damaging - not only for our soldiers and Army - but to the individual him/herself.

    Having Part 3 provides the balance to the system.
  5. Ramillies, could you fill in a gap in my knowledge here. When should a part 3 be written? I cant remember having had one and i'm not sure of the rules.


  6. Part 3 is written by a Major or above from the Arm/Corps of the subject. This is to give balance amongst those who may not be reported on by their own parent corps. When I was an Armr Sgt with the Royal Irish in NI, my Part 1 was written by the QM(T) and Part 2 (obvoiusly) by the CO. BEME (or SO2 ES as we now rather less catchily call them) wrote Part 3 to give a Corps-flavoured spin to the report.
  7. Gotcha - cheers for that mate
  8. Ramillies, that was an excellent DS solution, however my question was slightly loaded in that I have not seen the balance to which you refer. The O grade to which I referred was singular across the whole Regt in which I was serving at that time and done upon consultation with Bde level MS expert.

    Balance is fine, sweeping strokes from a lofty pen are not.
  9. OldSnowy

    OldSnowy LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    A quick independent view here - coming from an person that will never get a Part 3 while he has a pot to piss in, I can only say that, having worked very closely with several div Comds of various Cap Badges recently, they take an extremely variable view of Part 3. One, who will remain nameless - but who was Comd ES - took this extremely seriously, and spent lots of late hours on this, even though in an Op Theatre. Another - nameless and Corpless - couldn't give a toss, and copied the same 5 reports for over 80 Officers/WOs. Another was half way between the two.

    As usual, human nature gets in the way, and some respond to the challenge more seriously than others. Sad, but true.
  10. Thanks Maj B for answering Boney's question.

    I agree and it is wrong. This can easily be seen by a Board when the same officer write fairly meaningless things on each report.

    Regarding downgrading from an O - it is difficult to comment without the details but it must have been done for a reason as this is a large step, and the 3rd RO would have been well aware of the consequences. I am not saying that there have never been errors but much work is done to ensure that officers and soldiers are treated fairly, transparently and when there is doubt, it is given in favour of the individual.

    That said, whilst grades are important - the crux is what is actually written in the report. This is where the Board gets the flavour of the calibre of a man or woman - strengths and weaknesses. This allows people to get promoted on merit and to get selected for jobs that suits their strengths so the Army and individual gains.
  11. The grades don't mean anything, 85% of CRs rec'd at REME MCM are A grade. This is statistically impossible. Even if the corps is full of supermen many of the guidelines in MS guide talk about "above average" behavoir or conduct. Not everyone can be above average, it's impossible!!!

    Most soldiers should be C/B grade. You should have as many D and E as you have A and O. It's called life, get used to it!
  12. Some interesting comments.

    Personally I think our Corps gets its' promotion boards spot on. They are as fair as they could be and I understand from personal experience the importance placed on pen pictures rather than grades. Perhaps the subject of grades slightly clouded the theme of my debate.

    My opinion whilst erring slightly to the negative value of Part 3 is not vehemently strong , I merely wished to discuss the merits or possible harm that can be done by a comment that is possibly made outside the immediate and informed chain of command. :idea:
  13. Snarley Don't quote me but I suspect from what I know of the development path of soldiers reports that part 3 will meet its demise with the introduction of the soldiers Joint Appraisal Report. Glasgow (MS) have lobbied for years to limit the instances where a part three should be written. It should be limited to a comment of functional competence when operating in an E1 post outside a Corps chain of command or WOs recommended for commisiioning. SJAR will not appear until Joint Personnel Administration System(JPAS) comes into force....I think
  14. when I was in NI, my part 3 started "I've never met this soldier but I'd like to"
  15. when I was in NI, my part 3 started "I've never met this soldier but I'd like to"