Why not get the RTCs to pay for Visiting Instructors?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Bravo_Bravo, Jul 22, 2010.

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  1. I'm well aware that some units will not let their blokes attend RTCs as Visiting Instructors, due to MTD issues. The RTC should have a complement of N posted DS anyway, and are very reliant on Visiting DS - usually Infantry, IME, who just seem to be better at it. If the Vistitors wheer not there, more PIDs would be taken as Posted DS.

    MTD constraints have resulted in OCs / COs stopping their guys from turning up, so why not have the MTD cost for DS paid for by the RTC?

  2. The MTD's of visiting DS paid for by RTC... nice idea, but far outside the capability of a unit pay clerk... let alone two pay clerks (which just makes it doubley impossible)?

    You need to quit it with this sort of joined up thinking, it'll get you in trouble.
  3. nice! however, rtc's have had a good deal on getting buck she, visiting ds for years. myself and many other instructors fell into the trap of being a ad hock, stand in instuctor for many a year... only to be imformed,,,"DONT GO TO THE RTC ANY MORE, YOUR NOT PART OF THAT UNIT " rec trg inst, should go to rtc,s if only to keep up with "good practice"... budget, mtd, budget, mtd,,,,,,,,,
  4. Ravers

    Ravers LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Surely if your unit has recruits going through RTC, it is in your unit's best interest to send it's own DS?

    The benefits to both the unit and recruit are obvious to see. The recruit gets a bit of specialised training and gets to know a senior NCO from their mob, the unit gets to oversee how it's lads are treated and impart a bit of influence on the training delivered.

    Or is that not how it works in the rest of the TA?
  5. Thats how it was until Sqn admin became a monster and MTD limits became more vigoursly enforced. You can only do more with less to a certain limit... From BB's assertion that units aren't releasing Instr's it seems that perhaps we've reached that limit.
  6. i think the "limit" was reached many moons ago,
  7. BB, you are absolutley right - this is the holy grail, there is one very small problem though - the Army financial/pay systems are total bollocks and can't actually do it...........
    Yes that award winning state of the art pay system JPA can't actually charge £'s to any UIN other than the one that owns the PID (Funny that most commercial systems can).
    As to transferring either actuals or budgets this has also been judged by the bureaucrats as too hard even though Blenheim/Farrier was intended to facilitate this. Maybe the GCM will factor this desperate need in.
    The real answer is to get the establishments right accross all the RTC so there would be no need to have Visiting Instructors - there probably is the right number in total its jsut that they got divi'd up wrongly - some RTC's taking 5% of the national Phase 1 load have more instructors on establishment than RTC's taking nearly 25% of the total
    Mind you Theatre Troops sudden awakening is very nearly here - it has been noticed that they are not supplying (and therefore not paying their fair share) Visiting Instructors by some very very senior people - the mantra is no Instructors = no phase 1 places at RTC's
  8. Don't get me started; this has long been a bugbear of mine.

    The majority of DS are ruler-writing thickos like me, Infantry. The OC is MI but he is about the only MI guy seen. RMP are never ever there, neither are the Loggies despite the Ginsters Brigade having enough MTDs to train hard for a Mil skills competition in London earlier this year.

    I must admit I'm encouraged by TiggrsOwn post ; Gen Parker said a couple of years ago " No DS, no recruits".

    Some uncomfortable conversations to be had, it seems.

    Most Excellent.
  9. Actually its Correctly titled The Brigade of Ginsters (Princess of Pie and Pasties own) (V)
    my CO up untill the budgets disaparing was constantly on at me to go as a visiting instructor to our local RTC but I could not commit to the amount of time he told the RTC i would do now i have the time and a mild intrest in going its alll er no the budget computer it say no
  10. As I've said before, that position works right up until the point (taking my own unit as an example) CO 1 MI Bde tells CGS that he won't be supplying HERRICK with a full team as some TA Inf units are refusing to support ops by training recruits, despite having the ability to do so. I can't speak for others, but we are very short of instructors.

    And I'm also surprised by the lack of survival skills being demonstrated here. Cuts are on the way, we all know that, and as HERRICK winds down the need for TA Inf grinding out IRs disappears. Having demonstrated they can surge the Inf have also demonstrated they can be cut until the next emergency. Establishing yourself as the centre of excellence for training all TA recruits would seem to be a good move to me, were I Inf. And to be honest, I'd rather be taught Mil Skills by an infanteer than someone from my own capbadge. Horses for courses and all that.
  11. I am not aware of any Infantry units that are refusing to send DS to the RTC. There may be a cap, but at RTC SE the Infantry come from 7 Rifles, Londons. 3PWRR and there is even a Parachutist. I felt one eyebrow rise ever so slightly at the thougt of a CO getting a sulk because he thinks other units are not training his blokes, when they might actualy be doing so. As you'll know, DIE training is the overriding priority, even above SUTs.

    I think that the DS tend to be the longer serving bods. The surge is provided - I think - by soldiers that have been in less than three years ( I have no facts to back that up, its just an observation. ) Its relatively easy to get blokes through the door, but to have a cohort of soldiers with usable quals, presence etc is harder to maintain. I also think the turnover of TA soldiers occurs mainly in the first two years or so; get a Stab to stay for three years and they're in for a good deal longer.
  12. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Oots - I would expect CGS to have some questions to ask of CO 1 MI Bde as well.

    1. Why the assumption that others should pick up your burden? It is not in anyone elses mission statement that they pick up the jobs that the MI/RMP/insert capbadge of choice don't fancy doing. Refusing to support operations or refusing to support other units who are not willing to do the leg work required to contribute towards training their own? The military community as a whole is also rather busy at the moment, and yet they still manage to find the manpower to staff the training of the next generation, even if it means gapping some other posts - why shouldn't you?

    2. Prove that there is not a single NCO per district that is capable/willing to serve in a 2 year secondment to an RTC. You have said yourself on many occasions that you train up the young thrusters, then they deploy, then they fade away. Perhaps being nudged towards a new challenge where their experience will be used would persuade at least some of them to stay around? They then potentially come back to the MI with all sorts of useful qualifications - the same qualifications that you require to do your basic MATTs continuation training.

    Who knows - as the Herrick drawdown progresses there may even be some volunteers from the serial "non attending" units. They will also need to justify their existence and MTDs somehow.